ASPCA: Central Park Carriage Horse Was Unhealthy Before It Died

Standoff Between Animal Rights Activists, Mayor Bloomberg On Horizon

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — He was too sick to be working.

The horse that died on a Manhattan street in October should never have been there in the first place, according to a necropsy.

The horse, which passed away two weeks ago on its way to work in Central Park, was suffering — and in pain — according to the preliminary findings released Tuesday, reports CBS 2’s Kathryn Brown.

LINK: ASPCA Releases Findings on Carriage Horse Death

The results show the 15-year-old draft horse, “Charlie,” had a variety of ailments, including a fractured tooth and a chronic stomach ulcer.

And while the actual cause of death is still unknown, the results are driving a wedge between the ASPCA — the organization that enforces the city’s laws against animal cruelty — and Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a longtime proponent of the horse and carriage trade.

“This is a horse that went to work at age 15. Without that, unfortunately, the horse probably would have been put down, and so at least it had a good life,” Bloomberg said Tuesday.

The ASPCA had an entirely different take.

“We — with all due respect to the mayor — don’t believe the choice is dying a bad death somewhere else, and perhaps suffering and dying on the city street working,” said Stacy Wolf, VP of the ASPCA’s Humane Law Enforcement division.

Wolf told 1010 WINS that the horse’s death brings to light the need to adjust the laws governing carriage horses.

“Certainly this issue and I think Charlie’s situation — the tragic situation — does I think highlight the fact that we need to take a hard look at making the law more protective when it comes to more thorough veterinary exams,” she said.

Since Charlie’s death a number of animal rights groups and lawmakers have come forward demanding the city ban horse and carriage rides and replace them with classic cars or pedicabs.

“Horse-drawn carriages should not exist anymore in Midtown traffic. That’s a no-brainer,” State Sen. Tony Avella said.

“This case just points out the treacherous life of a horse, whose job it is to drag around thousands of pounds of carriage and people,” said State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal.

Rosenthal said she’s gotten more than 5,000 letters and e-mails in the last few months supporting her state bill to ban horse-drawn carriages.

Supporters of the industry point to tougher laws enacted last year, including one that states the horses must be examined by a veterinarian twice each year.

But the ASPCA said a cursory exam wouldn’t have necessarily shown Charlie was in any pain, while a post-mortem examination showed he clearly was.

“Our excellent veterinarian does believe that in all likelihood, he certainly could have suffered discomfort or pain from those conditions,” Wolf said.

The ASPCA said Charlie had only been working as a carriage horse for a few weeks before he died and said in a statement on its website that “Charlie was not healthy for a career in an urban carriage horse business.”

“We are very concerned that Charlie was forced to work in spite of painful maladies, and these particular health issues can be difficult to diagnose because draft horses are by nature a stoic breed, not displaying signs of pain until they are very severe,” DVM Pamela Corey with the ASPCA said in the statement.

Last week, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said carriage horses in the city are fortunate to be working.

“Most of them probably wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t have a job,” Bloomberg said.

Lashing out at critics of horse-drawn carriages, Bloomberg said tourists who use the carriages contribute to the city’s economy.

“Traditionally, when you come to New York, that’s what you expect to see,” tourist Michael Wenz told Brown.

What do you think? Sound off below in our comments section…

Comments

One Comment

  1. Angela Cardner says:

    Well isn’t this interesting?
    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/vet-who-spoke-about-carriage-horses-death-is-suspended/
    Two weeks ago, a carriage horse collapsed and died on its way to Central Park. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which has oversight over New York’s carriage horses, issued preliminary findings that the horse “was not a healthy horse and was likely suffering from pain” from stomach ulcers.

    But a few days later, the society’s head equine veterinarian took it upon herself to issue a “correction” stating that in fact there was no evidence that the horse, Charlie, was experiencing any pain, that the ulcers he had were common in all breeds of working horses, and that the implication that Charlie was being abused was misleading.
    Is CBS2 Going to report in this development?

  2. abbey says:

    Bloombergs’ comments are SICK! Just another reason why there is growing antisemitism in this country! You would think that any Jew would have a little more compassion than your average person, but no. They don’t seem to have any.

  3. abbey says:

    Hook the owner of that poor horse up to that buggy and whip the living s –t out of him. Effer., What was he doing with a sick horse working? And this abuse of animals END ALREADY? Sick people.

  4. hns says:

    i used to live on 55th st and see this horse all the time. he was always filthy and sickly looking. his owner never took care of him. i yelled at him a few times and he just laughed.

  5. Eugenia Renskoff says:

    Hi, If Charlie was neglected, that is wrong. He died in pain. Who wants that?

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      How do WE know Charlie died in pain, or had been feeling any pain? That is just the ASPCA’ vet’s suposition based on the post-mortem finding that he did have stomach ulcers.
      I have a human friend who almost died from stomach ulcers. He had no idea he had them. He did not feel any pain. He felt tired and almost passed out, so he went to the hospital at another friend’s urging.
      When he got there, the doctors found his blood pressure was very low. They found he was bleeding from his ulcers, but he had never noticed any severe pain or really any pain at all.. He needed a transfusion and immdeiate care to prevent his death. Understand HE NEVER FELT ANY PAIN-severe or otherwise– that would have led him to believe he was ill, much less close to death.

  6. Kel T says:

    Seriously, if you have no experience with horses other than seeing one on a city street or in a pasture from a car window, you have no business trying to vet one. If a horse is in pain, you’ll know it when it kicks the crap out of the carriage, rears up and tries to strike the handler, slings it’s head around and tries to knock the crap out of you. I’ve been around working horses, both draft and light horses all my life, own both types right now and I can tell you that if a draft doesn’t want to do something because it’s in pain and you try to force the issue, you’re going to be in the hospital.

    No, I don’t think horses pulling carriages on busy city streets is a good thing, in fact, I think they should be confined to a no motorized vehicle area.

    As to the commenter that mentioned the small stalls, there is a reason for that. First of all, most draft horses are kept in what are known as tie stalls to keep them from rolling around and becoming cast. If you aren’t familiar with the terms look them up. Bad things happen when a horse is cast, you have a true emergency. They can break their neck, injure their spine and legs, or even die from being positioned unnaturally and their weight pressing down on vital organs. With a light breed, think Quarter Horse, it can take 3-4 people to get the animal moved enough so they can get up. With a draft, you almost need a tractor or some other type of vehicle to get them off the stall wall.

    It’s sad that Charlie died the way he did, on the street, but I wouldn’t have wanted him going to a slaughter house either. Face it, in this economy, if the horse doesn’t have a purpose, it’s someone’s dinner down the line.

    Keep the carriages in the park and PETA in a cage.

  7. Ray Olsz says:

    Whatever happened to compassion? When you see these poor horses drag their carriages on a hot Summer day or the cold of Winter you have to be made of stone not to care. The drivers are bullies just looking to make a buck. Most can’t even speak English. The Mayor feels that he is doing such a great job in his office that he forced his re-election by going independent. How lucky we are to have another politician that knows better than the people they represent. Bloomberg – your days are numbered. Go back to the private sector where you belong. With all of the issues currently taking place in the City (illegal protests), it’s becomes obvious that Bloomberg is still playing politics.

  8. MAYOR MIKE IS A says:

    THERE ISNT ONE DAY GOES BY THAT I DONT WISH DEATH ON THAT ARROGANT SO B POS DOU CEBERG

  9. Carriage Horse Lover says:

    For the LAST time- the horse Charlie DID NOT die of ulcers or a cracked tooth. Just becasue a horse is found upon death to have had an uclerated stomach and a cracked tooth after working only a few weeks as a carriage horse does not prove he was treated cruelly or abused.

    I want a real answer as to why Charlie died! Surely if he had had a fatal condition like an anyrism, stroke or cardiac episode AKA heart attack- THESE would have shown up in the necropsy. Again, an ulcer or even ulcers and a cracked tookt would not cause an otherwise healthy horse only 15 years old and in good flesh to “drop dead.”

    1. karrie says:

      What did you say was the name of the veterinary college you attended?

        1. Tenwii says:

          Yes, and you do not need to be a board certified cardiac surgeon to perform open-heart surgery, either. You simply need to google 3 surgery websites, process the information second hand, claim this makes you an expert, and dig in!

          1. Angela Cardner says:

            Here ya’ go, a DVM said it.. in fact THE DVM who said the horse was in pain has basically retracted her comments.
            http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/vet-who-spoke-about-carriage-horses-death-is-suspended/
            Two weeks ago, a carriage horse collapsed and died on its way to Central Park. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which has oversight over New York’s carriage horses, issued preliminary findings that the horse “was not a healthy horse and was likely suffering from pain” from stomach ulcers.

            But a few days later, the society’s head equine veterinarian took it upon herself to issue a “correction” stating that in fact there was no evidence that the horse, Charlie, was experiencing any pain, that the ulcers he had were common in all breeds of working horses, and that the implication that Charlie was being abused was misleading.

      1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

        I don’t need to have attended a vet school to be knowlegable about horse health, disease, care and keeping. I have 50 years’ experience as a horse owner, rider, driver and breeder. – 50 years of hands-on experience NOT just four years at a vet school with only a 6 to 9 week rotation in equine studies.

        I have owned and worked with hundreds of horses – hundreds. How many horses have you worked with, and how many years of hands-on experience do you have?

        In all these years, I have seen only one horse have to be euthanized as a result of an ulcerated stomach. The horse had been bought and was boarded at our barn approximately two months before she exhibited symptoms commonly associated with colic. She was a little underweight when she arrived, but the new owner’s vet thought she was jsut “wormy” and wormed her. She was gaining weight slowly, and was exercised and lounged regularly as well as turned out for four hours of free-roaming exercise in a large pasture daily.

        She was ill for just about a week before she went down in her stall, had to be forced back on her feet by seven people, and was transported to a university vet clinic. She was lethargic, she refused to eat more than a few mouthfulls of feed at a time or drink much water, she had chronic loose stools, and ungulating fever. She bit at her sides and threw herself down on her side and then got up and stood awhile before going down again and trying to roll.

        She was under a vet’s care from the evening of the day that she had firt “gone off” her feed. The vet treated her for colic- tubed and oiled her several times, administered various medicines and did bloodwork. The vet was making farm calls on her at least twice a day –with no evident improvement. Finally after she had gone down, and almost couldn’t be gotten back up, the vet suggested a trip to the large animal clinic at LSU when he condition continued to “go south.”.

        By the time she had gotten there, and they had “scoped” her, she was in shock, and her owner decided to have her euthanized after the vets told her that even with treatment, the prognosis was not good at all.

        The horse was about 15, and had been owned by her current owner just over two months. At the necropsy, the vets found evidence of a long-standing chronic ulcerated stomach. In short, the mare had had ulcers for years before she was sold to her new owner – sound familiar? And, no the horse did not belong to me, but to a boarder at our barn. And she did not “drop dead” but was euthanized becasue her owner was told her chances of a recovery wee almost nil, and she was in pain as evidenced by her going into shock.

        I would note that from his photo, Charlie appeared to be in good health and in good flesh. Of course none of us know such particulars as his height and weight becasue the ASPCA has chosen not to share the complete necropsy – apparently not even with his owner ro dirver.

  10. Christina Hansen says:

    “The results show the 15-year-old draft horse, “Charlie,” had a variety of ailments, including a fractured tooth and a chronic stomach ulcer.”:

    Um, no, the results show not a “variety” but precisely TWO ailments – the ulcer and the tooth. The tooth could have happened perimortem and there is no way to know if Charlie felt discomfort from it (some dentists will leave fractured teeth as is, unless a horse indicates discomfort). Anywhere between 60 and 90% of the GENERAL HORSE POPULATION has or has had ulcers. I’d be really curious to see what the results would be on endoscoping the NYPD mounted police horses, also stabled in the city.

    There is *perhaps* a third, as yet, ailment – the one that caused Charlie’s death. However, we know that Charlie DID NOT suffer from any of the following “ailments” that would show up in the preliminary necropsy and which the ASPCA would have reported- aneurysm, internal bleeding, colic, dehydration, infection, arthritis, cancer, enlarged heart or other organs, parasitic infection (worms, etc.), chronic neglect, poor dental or farrier care, etc., etc., etc.

    That common ulcers and a broken tooth were the ONLY things “wrong” with this 15-year-old horse is a testament to his care in NYC.

  11. Marianellen says:

    Seeing these horses navigate in midtown traffic at rush hour and during the holidays is heartbreaking. If there was a way to keep them only in the environs of Central Park, that might be a solution.

    Unfortunately, the mayor is correct: Charlie would have been put down earlier if he had not become a carriage horse. Horses are being let loose and suffering all over this country because people can’t afford to keep them. It really is tragic. It is so sad there can’t be a compromise.

  12. Swamp Yankee Horseman says:

    No one can get away with maintaining horses in a sub-standard condition today if they’re in the public eye; particularly as high-profile as the NYC carriage horses. If they didn’t have shiny coats, good flesh, bright eyes and sound steps well-shod, someone would call the driver out on it immediately. Many, many people who work or shop in Midtown have horses of their own in outlying suburbs and would make it their business to stop neglect.

    That said, Mayor Bloomberg was exactly correct, and he knows horses. There are many who have tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of vet care lavished on them annually who have far worse ulcers than this horse, and a broken tooth is about as significant a finding as if a 45-year-old walking to his office dropped dead of a heart attack with same. Unfortunately, what’s happening here is the paper worded the Cornell report ambiguously (the actual cause of death wasn’t cited), and the “Agenda” groups are shamelessly exploiting someone’s unlucky day. STUFF HAPPENS to horses, folks–just like to people. Why completely ruin someone’s life who doubtlessly already feels perfectly awful?

    1. Rina Deych says:

      Swamp Yankee Horseman, too big a coward to post his/her real name, wrote: No one can get away with maintaining horses in a sub-standard condition today if they’re in the public eye; ” Hate to disillusion you, Swamp, but clearly that’s exactly what they got away with.
      Horse-drawn carriages are cruel and dangerous (to both people and horses) and they don’t belong in NYC, period.

    2. Alice Ruth says:

      Bloomberg has shown that he does NOT know the first thing about horses! It doesn’t matter that his daughter rides horses, he is a complete ignoramus.

  13. pete says:

    These horses are only there to make an easy buck for their owners. They bring no business to New York City. The carriage owners never pay a penny on taxes, as they all claim a loss on their tax returns, and cost the Sanitation Department a lot of money to clean up after them. The tourists would spend their money on something else, and may as well take a pedicab or walk if they want to explore Central Park. Nobody would miss the horse drawn carriages, except the rats and pigeons which live well from their crap.

  14. Swamp Yankee Horseman says:

    I’ve been the owner/operator of a boarding stable for 35 years, and I can tell you NO horse ever dropped dead from bum teeth or an ulcer. Those are insidious, chronic-type ailments, EXTREMELY common in all classes of horses regardless of their age and work, and if anything they result in slow weight loss, not sudden death. So, what DID he die of? Colic? Cerebral hemorrhage? Cardiac arrythmia? Those would all be probable causes, and none related to his work considering that those carriages roll very, very easily. Working the way they do in the Amish country, pulling plows and other farm equipment is MUCH harder work physically. People should know what they’re talking ABOUT before they start all their foolish yammering–and nobody loves horses more than I do; I’ve worked my whole live with them and own 5 rescues!

    1. wncchester says:

      “Horse Was Unhealthy Before It Died” GOODNESS! How did they ever arrive at that?

      Oh well, no one with common sense will ever understand a PETA mind; perhaps they believe that horse – and all other animals? – would live forever if evil men would just be more kind to them. Fact is, most of PETA types just want to yammer and whine about ‘poor animals’, few would ever work with and care for them as Swamp Yankee does.

    2. Sai says:

      Doesn’t matter if you’ve worked with horses for 100 years. What’s wrong in contemporary society is wrong. Horses in NYC is just wrong. Just like the sane know that the Iraq war was wrong. We don’t need to be there to know that it’s wrong. Common sense.

  15. Sally Rogers says:

    “Traditionally, when you come to New York, that’s what you expect to see,” tourist Michael Wenz told Brown.

    People expect a lot of things when they come to New York. We have broken tradition with the expansion of Times Sq, bike lanes taking up half an Avenue and people actually “living” on Wall st. Its time to see these horses retired and rescued from this life of misery. If Bloomberg thinks they would be dead if they did’nt work the streets of Manhattan; then sadly maybe they are better off dead than dealing with blaring car horns and enhaling fumes all day from bus tail pipes.

  16. Angela Cardner says:

    “This case just points out the treacherous life of a horse, whose job it is to drag around thousands of pounds of carriage and people,” said State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal.
    Really? It does? How so Ms Rosenthal? Pray tell what you know about horses, or horses with ulcers that you came to that sweeping conclusion?

    As for the opening lines of this story, where in the report from Cornell did they say the horse was too sick to be working, should never have been in Manhattan and was in pain and suffering? Call Cornell and ask them what the findings actually indicate and about the prevelance of ulcers in most sport/pleasure horses and that those ulcers are signs of, how debilitating they are and what the treatment for it is.
    To do less is to simply take the easy way out of your job and lower your professional standards to those of sensationalistic Gossip Rag journalism you should be ashamed to be partaking in.
    Goodness I bet more research was done about K Kardashians 72 day marriage and divorce then was done on this story…

  17. Angela Cardner says:

    “This case just points out the treacherous life of a horse, whose job it is to drag around thousands of pounds of carriage and people,” said State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal.
    Really? It does? How so Ms Rosenthal? Pray tell what you know about horses, or horses with ulcers that you came to that sweeping conclusion?

    As for the opening lines of this story, where in the report from Cornell did they say the horse was too sick to be working, should never have been in Manhattan and was in pain and suffering? Call Cornell and ask them what the findings actually indicate and about the prevelance of ulcers in most sport/pleasure horses and that those ulcers are signs of, how debilitating they are and what the treatment for it is.
    To do less is to simply take the easy way out of your job and lower your professional standards to those of sensationalistic Gossip Rag journalism you should be ashamed to be partaking in.

  18. Get them out says:

    Has no one ever seen where these poor horses live? They live in a brownstone building, forced to walk up several flights of stairs, and are kept in the smallest of stalls ( if you even want to call them stalls). They are over worked and abused. The carriage drivers take poor care of them and they should be banned. Maybe the drivers of the carriages should live how the horses live to see how it feels.

    1. Ginger says:

      Thank you!

    2. EShearer says:

      Thank you for telling them like it is. Some of the cormmenters are just as cold hearted as Bloomberg. Shame on them.

    3. Beth says:

      And I’m sure you’ve seen these stalls. And also know that horses don’t climb stairs. If you have a stair climbing horse, please contact Hollywood. They are used in movies.

  19. christine says:

    they are horses, they have been pulling stuff around for years..you never said a word to the farmers when they were using horses….if anything they should pass a annual physical to work in the city

  20. MG says:

    The person in the featured comment mentioned that they’d be interested in signing a petition to ban horse-drawn carriages. I just signed and hope everyone else will too! Find it here: http://www.ny-class.org/action/petition

  21. Jack Spegal says:

    Bloombito is lucky he has a weekend house in Bermuda to go to. Is that we he spent last weekend’s blizzard??

  22. Tenwii says:

    First, it is possible to care about how horses are kept AS WELL AS 1) people going hungry, 2) race horses, and 3) the jobless rate. I care about all these things and my brain has not exploded (some may argue otherwise but…). Those are false dichotomies. Same goes for the notion that 1) if they are not used as carriage horses, 2) they would be dead. False dichotomy part deux. And finally 1) horses co-evolved with us so 2) sitting in bumper to nose traffic along with all the exhaust makes perfect evolutionary sense. It doesn’t even make sense for humans to breathe that junk, but at least we have a choice.

    If were as simple as “if it is a problem then something should have been done” already, it’d have been done, because it’s a problem, folks have raised the ethical issues and tried to get the practice banned, but unfortunately things take time. No one is more annoyed with that than me. That they are ‘treated better’ now (if they are and I am not convinced of that) than they were when people’s lives depended on a healthy horse is still not ok. “Better” does not equal “good”.

    Finally, even Bugs Bunny checks a horse’s teeth in Warner Brother’s cartoons, so I think it unlikely they are “well monitored” and “cared for” when they didn’t see a cracked and infected tooth. Seriously, you don’t look at the horse’s teeth? I cannot imagine a thorough vet missing that — having worked with good vets, I know this for certain. As for not detecing ulcers right away, perhaps, but you don’t monitor a horse’s health for a few weeks before you take an Amish-country-trained horse and plunk it into NYC traffic? Heck I waited for a week MYSELF upon moving to NYC before I jumped into traffic.

    If the horses are treated so very well, then why not increase the level of care and monitoring? Seriously, if there is no problem why worry about oversight? Oh, because they aren’t well cared for, that’s why. Plunking a horse into traffic within a week of being in Amish country is a bad plan ethically, and stupid investment-wise if that’s how you think. Why would you not health check a critical investment like that? The carriage operator should have the license revoked for being bad at the job, from that perspective.

    Do I think a horse experiences the world in an identical way to me? Do I think they literally think “crap my life sucks and I would prefer helping a shepherd monitoring cattle in the fields of Montana”? Not literally, but that does not disclude their capacity to suffer and feel pain. And that is enouigh. Heck, I don’t even know if the guy next to me thinks the same way I do. Doesn’t mean I haul off and slug him. We have a choice, and we are choosing not to see it.

    Dejectedly,
    T

  23. Jessica says:

    Save a horse, ride a pedicab.

  24. Carriage Lover says:

    Charlie didn’t actually die from being a carriage horse you crazy PETA people, he probably died from overwhelming happiness for having a human-granted purpose! He was simply so overjoyed to be serving the evolutionary destiny (that we decided for him) that his spirit simply ascended into horse-heaven as he headed toward his proud and fun work: pulling people around on pavement.

    Horses evolved to serve human beings, not to run around is some grassy field enjoying their own social and emotional lives and doing what they want, so get a grip. Plus, they can’t feel pain, as the science of the 1600’s has proven – they are fleshy robots who can’t speak English, so why not assume that my forcing them to do what I want them to do can be interpreted as a big “yes. I love this!” from them?

    Now that I’ve proven my point, you compassion-lunatics won’t be reaping all the benefits of banning horse-carriages (may as well cross that Mediterranean Cruise off your calendars since the big payout from advocating for horses isn’t happening) and I can get back to work making money from these horses, which is a far more benevolent. We are humans begins – practically gods. hey horses are just… horses. Who can argue with that?

    1. Brandy says:

      I can tell you were not a very good student, ever! Horses began in the wild stupid. And they are abused all of the time. The fortunate horse is the one whose owners are willing to spend the money it takes to diagnose and treat ailments. If Charlie had had his teeth floated regularly as is needed, the veterinarian or farrier would have found the broken tooth and begun investigating. Also with a broken tooth, charlie would have had difficulty chewing and slobbered his food. Another indication that medical attention was necessary. And lastly, Charlie’s stools would have been abnormal. A sure sign to call a vet. I know because I used to own horses and have spent tens of thousands of dollars taking medical care of the animals as they needed it. If you cannot afford the doctor bills, don’t have animals. There should be a law that requires people to submit a financial statement if they want to purchase an animal or use them.

      1. Don says:

        There should be an IQ test before people are allowed to have children. That would put an end to PETA

  25. Carriage Horse Lover says:

    Well- Many, many performance, show and trail horses have ulcers. These are usually discovered ONLY after a horse exhibits lack of interest in its feed.

    It takes way more than JUST three weeks, for ulcers to develop and become “severe.” Horses don’t suddenly drop dead from either ulcers or a cracked tooth.

    But I am not surprised by the “spin” the ASPCA and its ink wants to put on poor Charlie’s death. You have taken a stand against carriage hroses and you will twist and spin anything to “prive” the conclusion you have already adopted.

    I have already read elsewhere the “spin” that Charlie was a farm horse and was probably mistreated on the farm, too. Got any proof? Horses, like people, somethmes crack a tooth. Does that mean we are mistreated? Give me a break.
    The facts are that Charlie’s job as a carriage horse was a much easier job than working as a plough horse on a farm. He was probably vet checked at time of perchase, since he was of a good weight and fit, the vet didn’t see a need to look for any other health issues. Most people who buy horss do have a pre-purchase exam done becasue horses are expensive to buy and maintain.

    And as far as ulcers go, many show jumping horses like the one’s shown and ridden by Ms. Bloomberg have ulcers. I don’t see you all calling for an end to show jumping. Oh, wait, of course not because Ms. Bloombery, the hypocrite, is one of your spokespeople calling for a ban on carriage horses.

    1. Angela Cardner says:

      Excellent points. MOST show horses have ulcers, is ASPCA going to now claim all show horse owners are neglectful? I bet Cornell even has studies available online detailing the prevelance of ulcers in horses who are active in many jobs, as well as those who are not doing any job whatsoever.
      When horses suffer longterm from and/or die from stomach ulcers, they also show other obvious signs of these ulcers- poor coats, lack of appetite, weight loss, and other signs of stress. However, Charlie, in the pictures we’ve seen in the press, appeared in good weight, and with a healthy coat that was thickening for the approaching winter.

      Finally, regarding the chipped tooth, who is to say that happened before the horse dropped to the pavement and not as a result of that fall?

      Where would Charlie be if he was not a carriage horse? Well people keep horses for pleasure or to do work, they do not keep them around just to gaze at… if his owner needed a carriage horse and Charlie could not do that job where do you think he would be? There are not enough homes for 15 year old large animals like that… unless it’s on a truck headed to Canada for slaughter for human consumption, they love older, fat draft type horses!!!

      This situation with Charlie is just a case of the ASPCA and this anti-carriage group grabbing at the first straw they have and running with it. How fast will they be with an apology to Charlies owner, whom they have defamed in calling this horses condition neglect, when it is shown the horse died from some illness that he could not have known was present and therefore could not have prevented? Because I can tell you that horse did not drop dead because he had chronic pronounced ulcers or a cracked tooth.

    2. Alice Ruth says:

      yep, specially after shameless people stuff those horses full of bute, which exacerbates the bleeding and hastens death.

      1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

        If you are referring to Charlie and his driver, I hope you have PROOF that Charlie was on BUTE before you make such unfounded accusations. saying “specially after shameless people stuff those horses full of bute.”
        Saying someting like this WITHOUT PROOF is libel and you could and should get sued.

        Thus far, the scanty “results” of Charlie’s necropsy as released in a press release by he APSCAhas not mentioned ANYTHING about Charlie having been on Bute or any other pain killer.

  26. Jerry_Leigh says:

    “Last week, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said carriage horses in the city are fortunate to be working. ‘Most of them probably wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t have a job,’Bloomberg said.” Bloomberg also proposes pension law changes that would force municipal employees to work longer, as well. So don’t accuse him of singling out horses.

  27. Giddy Yup says:

    Mayor Bloomberg’s position – however unpopular it may be – is correct. And if people would separate emotion from logic, they would realize that the horses in question aren’t “Mr. Ed” or “Trigger,” or “Silver” from The Lone Ranger series….they aren’t cuddly pets or beloved on-screen Hollywood icons. They are animals with a purpose – much the same way the chickens raised for Purdue or KFC have one purpose for their existence: Hatch, eat, get fat, be slaughtered for food. It’s their JOB – without which, the horses probably would not exist and would instead be sent to “the renderers” for processing.

    On the contrary, these horses are fed, housed, cared for, and given regular medical attention – at a time when millions of Americans are homeless, hungry, sick, and suffering…where’s the concern for them?

    So instead of whining about how horribly these “poor horses” are being treated, be grateful for their presence and for the role they play in one of the many things that makes New York the greatest city in the world.

    1. Tom Owens says:

      You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!

    2. DC says:

      Call it whining if you will. But remember that the animals that are here cannot fend for themselves. They need us. Some of the people you speak of that need housing and medical attention, there are agencies for them. They can attempt to help themselves. And some of them are in the sitatuion they are in due bad decisions in their lives. They have to reconcile that for themselves.

      We all serve a purpose for the short time we are here and life goes on long after we’re gone so maybe thinking that everything is here to “serve” us will come back and smack you in the face. If it means mistreating animals in any way, its wrong. And if you think animals are disposable or unimportant….remember that in the grand scheme of things, so are you!

      1. Angela Cardner says:

        These horses in the city are receive far better care [they are required to have 2 Vet visits a year! How many do you think a private owner has to give their horse? ZERO] than many horse in the burbs with owners who are too ignorant, or financially strapped to offer the animal. Just take a drive an hour outside of the city in almost any direction and I can find you dozens of horses who live lives far less cozy than these carriage horses- and without a mandated vacation!
        Trust me if there was a reason to think that there was some evil doings regarding this horses death, I would be the first one with a pitchfork in my hand, but the SPCA is coasting on a slippery slope with this one. If they are now going to go after folks with horses with ulcers, lots of sport and show horse people should be prepared, cause many, many horses have them.

        1. KSF says:

          Get real. According to an audit done by the New York City comptroller’s office, these carriage horses are badly treated. Even if they are required to have two vet visits per year, there is no system to track whether or not that is actually done. In fact, due to shoddy or misleading paperwork by the carriage owners, the two NYC agencies in charge of oversight are unable to even track these horses since they don’t have accurate indentification for many of them.

          http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/06/nyregion/06horses.html

    3. STEVE says:

      Since when are humans superior to animals? Because they are smarter? In that case let’s abuse and mistreat people based on intelligence.

  28. Dawn says:

    Now the horses should be lucky to be working??!! That is ignorance and indifference at its finestt!! It’s ALWAYS all about the money, not right and wrong!!! And I’m so sick of it!! I think these carriages should absolutely be banned and if there’s a petition for this, I’m sure lots of people would sign it!!

    1. Andrea says:

      You are so right Dawn, and yes there have been many petitions, I sign every one I come across NYClass is dedicated to banning the horse drawn carriages. Every time I see one my heart hurts for these poor animals. they all deserve better, it is ablsolutely abuse.
      Mayor Bloomberg, I would be lucky to be working! You are totally indifferent to everyones needs.

  29. RU4REAL says:

    Its not the entertainment (and I call it that because its definately not a sport) its the owners that dnt take care of the animals. These horses go thru pure hell and exhaustion. These so called owners should swap up these horses thru the day and see that they recieve vet care. They dnt care abt the animal they just want the money. Theres a right and wrong way of doing everything and its time America stood up and make people be more responsible!!!

  30. Rochelle says:

    The animal rights people should get a grip, a little bit of reason and a lot less emotional thinking would help. It would be interesting to see how these folk compare to the rest of the population in terms of analytical reasoning and logic. Or, if they prove just as logical as the rest of us, do they use their abilitiy to reason in emotionally challenging situations like cigarette smoking, drinking,football and sex. Oh, another thought should all contact sports be outlawed because they endanger humans? RL

    1. Alice Ruth says:

      There is no reason for this cash industry to exist in 21st-century Manhattan. Period. Don’t try to marginalize the ones who are advocating for the horses. Instead, you might want to evolve.

  31. nyci2i says:

    There is no reason this industry should still exist in theis over crowded, over-stimulated, over-poluted city. Residents wouldn’t dream of a horse and buggy ride and tourists can find a million other “New York” things to do. Retire these horses and let them live out the rest of their lives in peace.

    1. John Brooks says:

      In fact, this Manhattan Resident has taken many carriage rides – my fiance and I took a spin around the park on our 4th date; when my mother visited from CA, we rode around the park….and I’ve shared many other great times on – and have great memories from – Central Park carriage rides. And this Resident is not alone…

    2. Swamp Yankee Horseman says:

      Very few horses are fortunate enough to get “retired.” The vast majority coming unsound off Thoroughbred and harness racetracks, and from private owners after Little Susie lost interest or discovered boys, get sold at public auction for a few hundred dollars and take a very long, very nasty ride on a cattle truck to Mexico or Canada to be slaughtered for European consumption under conditions of dubious humanity. An occasional visit to Reality would help animal welfare groups pick their battles with far greater effect.

    3. Jerry LaForgia says:

      That’s the problem, if they didn’t work then theyd be euthanized for sure!
      There is no interest or market for these type of horses.
      Just where do you think the multitude of thoroughbreds and all racing horses go after their racing is over?
      Sad but true, this is reality.
      In the carriage horses cases they must be diligently looked after,which is probably being done in most cases.
      It must be monitored and paid for by a third party as we can’t rely o the owner or driver to do the right thing in all cases?
      Thoughts??

  32. diver says:

    Have these people ever seen a working Amish farm? How about those nasty jockeys forcing the horses to race around a track. These PETA people need to get a life. If the animals are really being abused something should be done but it just doesn’t appear this is what is happening.

  33. bruce rick says:

    unfortunately horses have always been treated badly and the real fact here is that in general they’ve been treated far better today than any other time in history – people need to wake up to reality and realize horses aren’t lap dogs to keep as pets – they’ve alway worked with and for mankind in a very significant way – far less than they do now actually – children are starving and dying in new york city due to poverty and neglect, that’s what people should mobilize themselves for, not to take away the few significant jobs horses have left in our society

    1. Angela Cardner says:

      There are probably animals in NY City that ASPCA could go help that are far worse off than these horses, the video shows horses who look like they have full winter coats coming in and are in good weight , and the story detailed they are required to Vet visits a year… are there mandatory Vet inspections for every dog and cat living in the city?
      If the reporter of this story really wants to get into the nitty gritty of this story- talk to the owner and the Owners Vet who may have seen the horse, and ask him/her what the horses health was like, what his life was like, go to the stables and see how the horses live… don;t just take the one side of the stories word for what the conditions are, educated yourself and go there and SEE with your eyes and then report it… that is what Journalism used to be about, not regurgitated talking points from each side that tells no one anything of actual fact.

  34. ornella says:

    put bloomberg to carry around tourist stupid enough to enjoy a horse ride through cement,crazy cab drivers and big building

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