“The results show the 15-year-old draft horse, “Charlie,” had a variety of ailments, including a fractured tooth and a chronic stomach ulcer.”:

Um, no, the results show not a “variety” but precisely TWO ailments – the ulcer and the tooth. The tooth could have happened perimortem and there is no way to know if Charlie felt discomfort from it (some dentists will leave fractured teeth as is, unless a horse indicates discomfort). Anywhere between 60 and 90% of the GENERAL HORSE POPULATION has or has had ulcers. I’d be really curious to see what the results would be on endoscoping the NYPD mounted police horses, also stabled in the city.

There is *perhaps* a third, as yet, ailment – the one that caused Charlie’s death. However, we know that Charlie DID NOT suffer from any of the following “ailments” that would show up in the preliminary necropsy and which the ASPCA would have reported- aneurysm, internal bleeding, colic, dehydration, infection, arthritis, cancer, enlarged heart or other organs, parasitic infection (worms, etc.), chronic neglect, poor dental or farrier care, etc., etc., etc.

That common ulcers and a broken tooth were the ONLY things “wrong” with this 15-year-old horse is a testament to his care in NYC.

Seeing these horses navigate in midtown traffic at rush hour and during the holidays is heartbreaking. If there was a way to keep them only in the environs of Central Park, that might be a solution.

Unfortunately, the mayor is correct: Charlie would have been put down earlier if he had not become a carriage horse. Horses are being let loose and suffering all over this country because people can’t afford to keep them. It really is tragic. It is so sad there can’t be a compromise.

No one can get away with maintaining horses in a sub-standard condition today if they’re in the public eye; particularly as high-profile as the NYC carriage horses. If they didn’t have shiny coats, good flesh, bright eyes and sound steps well-shod, someone would call the driver out on it immediately. Many, many people who work or shop in Midtown have horses of their own in outlying suburbs and would make it their business to stop neglect.

That said, Mayor Bloomberg was exactly correct, and he knows horses. There are many who have tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of vet care lavished on them annually who have far worse ulcers than this horse, and a broken tooth is about as significant a finding as if a 45-year-old walking to his office dropped dead of a heart attack with same. Unfortunately, what’s happening here is the paper worded the Cornell report ambiguously (the actual cause of death wasn’t cited), and the “Agenda” groups are shamelessly exploiting someone’s unlucky day. STUFF HAPPENS to horses, folks–just like to people. Why completely ruin someone’s life who doubtlessly already feels perfectly awful?

These horses are only there to make an easy buck for their owners. They bring no business to New York City. The carriage owners never pay a penny on taxes, as they all claim a loss on their tax returns, and cost the Sanitation Department a lot of money to clean up after them. The tourists would spend their money on something else, and may as well take a pedicab or walk if they want to explore Central Park. Nobody would miss the horse drawn carriages, except the rats and pigeons which live well from their crap.

I’ve been the owner/operator of a boarding stable for 35 years, and I can tell you NO horse ever dropped dead from bum teeth or an ulcer. Those are insidious, chronic-type ailments, EXTREMELY common in all classes of horses regardless of their age and work, and if anything they result in slow weight loss, not sudden death. So, what DID he die of? Colic? Cerebral hemorrhage? Cardiac arrythmia? Those would all be probable causes, and none related to his work considering that those carriages roll very, very easily. Working the way they do in the Amish country, pulling plows and other farm equipment is MUCH harder work physically. People should know what they’re talking ABOUT before they start all their foolish yammering–and nobody loves horses more than I do; I’ve worked my whole live with them and own 5 rescues!

“Traditionally, when you come to New York, that’s what you expect to see,” tourist Michael Wenz told Brown.

People expect a lot of things when they come to New York. We have broken tradition with the expansion of Times Sq, bike lanes taking up half an Avenue and people actually “living” on Wall st. Its time to see these horses retired and rescued from this life of misery. If Bloomberg thinks they would be dead if they did’nt work the streets of Manhattan; then sadly maybe they are better off dead than dealing with blaring car horns and enhaling fumes all day from bus tail pipes.

“This case just points out the treacherous life of a horse, whose job it is to drag around thousands of pounds of carriage and people,” said State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal.
Really? It does? How so Ms Rosenthal? Pray tell what you know about horses, or horses with ulcers that you came to that sweeping conclusion?

As for the opening lines of this story, where in the report from Cornell did they say the horse was too sick to be working, should never have been in Manhattan and was in pain and suffering? Call Cornell and ask them what the findings actually indicate and about the prevelance of ulcers in most sport/pleasure horses and that those ulcers are signs of, how debilitating they are and what the treatment for it is.
To do less is to simply take the easy way out of your job and lower your professional standards to those of sensationalistic Gossip Rag journalism you should be ashamed to be partaking in.
Goodness I bet more research was done about K Kardashians 72 day marriage and divorce then was done on this story…

“This case just points out the treacherous life of a horse, whose job it is to drag around thousands of pounds of carriage and people,” said State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal.
Really? It does? How so Ms Rosenthal? Pray tell what you know about horses, or horses with ulcers that you came to that sweeping conclusion?

As for the opening lines of this story, where in the report from Cornell did they say the horse was too sick to be working, should never have been in Manhattan and was in pain and suffering? Call Cornell and ask them what the findings actually indicate and about the prevelance of ulcers in most sport/pleasure horses and that those ulcers are signs of, how debilitating they are and what the treatment for it is.
To do less is to simply take the easy way out of your job and lower your professional standards to those of sensationalistic Gossip Rag journalism you should be ashamed to be partaking in.

Has no one ever seen where these poor horses live? They live in a brownstone building, forced to walk up several flights of stairs, and are kept in the smallest of stalls ( if you even want to call them stalls). They are over worked and abused. The carriage drivers take poor care of them and they should be banned. Maybe the drivers of the carriages should live how the horses live to see how it feels.

they are horses, they have been pulling stuff around for years..you never said a word to the farmers when they were using horses….if anything they should pass a annual physical to work in the city

The person in the featured comment mentioned that they’d be interested in signing a petition to ban horse-drawn carriages. I just signed and hope everyone else will too! Find it here: http://www.ny-class.org/action/petition

Bloombito is lucky he has a weekend house in Bermuda to go to. Is that we he spent last weekend’s blizzard??

First, it is possible to care about how horses are kept AS WELL AS 1) people going hungry, 2) race horses, and 3) the jobless rate. I care about all these things and my brain has not exploded (some may argue otherwise but…). Those are false dichotomies. Same goes for the notion that 1) if they are not used as carriage horses, 2) they would be dead. False dichotomy part deux. And finally 1) horses co-evolved with us so 2) sitting in bumper to nose traffic along with all the exhaust makes perfect evolutionary sense. It doesn’t even make sense for humans to breathe that junk, but at least we have a choice.

If were as simple as “if it is a problem then something should have been done” already, it’d have been done, because it’s a problem, folks have raised the ethical issues and tried to get the practice banned, but unfortunately things take time. No one is more annoyed with that than me. That they are ‘treated better’ now (if they are and I am not convinced of that) than they were when people’s lives depended on a healthy horse is still not ok. “Better” does not equal “good”.

Finally, even Bugs Bunny checks a horse’s teeth in Warner Brother’s cartoons, so I think it unlikely they are “well monitored” and “cared for” when they didn’t see a cracked and infected tooth. Seriously, you don’t look at the horse’s teeth? I cannot imagine a thorough vet missing that — having worked with good vets, I know this for certain. As for not detecing ulcers right away, perhaps, but you don’t monitor a horse’s health for a few weeks before you take an Amish-country-trained horse and plunk it into NYC traffic? Heck I waited for a week MYSELF upon moving to NYC before I jumped into traffic.

If the horses are treated so very well, then why not increase the level of care and monitoring? Seriously, if there is no problem why worry about oversight? Oh, because they aren’t well cared for, that’s why. Plunking a horse into traffic within a week of being in Amish country is a bad plan ethically, and stupid investment-wise if that’s how you think. Why would you not health check a critical investment like that? The carriage operator should have the license revoked for being bad at the job, from that perspective.

Do I think a horse experiences the world in an identical way to me? Do I think they literally think “crap my life sucks and I would prefer helping a shepherd monitoring cattle in the fields of Montana”? Not literally, but that does not disclude their capacity to suffer and feel pain. And that is enouigh. Heck, I don’t even know if the guy next to me thinks the same way I do. Doesn’t mean I haul off and slug him. We have a choice, and we are choosing not to see it.

Dejectedly,
T

Save a horse, ride a pedicab.

Charlie didn’t actually die from being a carriage horse you crazy PETA people, he probably died from overwhelming happiness for having a human-granted purpose! He was simply so overjoyed to be serving the evolutionary destiny (that we decided for him) that his spirit simply ascended into horse-heaven as he headed toward his proud and fun work: pulling people around on pavement.

Horses evolved to serve human beings, not to run around is some grassy field enjoying their own social and emotional lives and doing what they want, so get a grip. Plus, they can’t feel pain, as the science of the 1600′s has proven – they are fleshy robots who can’t speak English, so why not assume that my forcing them to do what I want them to do can be interpreted as a big “yes. I love this!” from them?

Now that I’ve proven my point, you compassion-lunatics won’t be reaping all the benefits of banning horse-carriages (may as well cross that Mediterranean Cruise off your calendars since the big payout from advocating for horses isn’t happening) and I can get back to work making money from these horses, which is a far more benevolent. We are humans begins – practically gods. hey horses are just… horses. Who can argue with that?

Well- Many, many performance, show and trail horses have ulcers. These are usually discovered ONLY after a horse exhibits lack of interest in its feed.

It takes way more than JUST three weeks, for ulcers to develop and become “severe.” Horses don’t suddenly drop dead from either ulcers or a cracked tooth.

But I am not surprised by the “spin” the ASPCA and its ink wants to put on poor Charlie’s death. You have taken a stand against carriage hroses and you will twist and spin anything to “prive” the conclusion you have already adopted.

I have already read elsewhere the “spin” that Charlie was a farm horse and was probably mistreated on the farm, too. Got any proof? Horses, like people, somethmes crack a tooth. Does that mean we are mistreated? Give me a break.
The facts are that Charlie’s job as a carriage horse was a much easier job than working as a plough horse on a farm. He was probably vet checked at time of perchase, since he was of a good weight and fit, the vet didn’t see a need to look for any other health issues. Most people who buy horss do have a pre-purchase exam done becasue horses are expensive to buy and maintain.

And as far as ulcers go, many show jumping horses like the one’s shown and ridden by Ms. Bloomberg have ulcers. I don’t see you all calling for an end to show jumping. Oh, wait, of course not because Ms. Bloombery, the hypocrite, is one of your spokespeople calling for a ban on carriage horses.

“Last week, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said carriage horses in the city are fortunate to be working. ‘Most of them probably wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t have a job,’Bloomberg said.” Bloomberg also proposes pension law changes that would force municipal employees to work longer, as well. So don’t accuse him of singling out horses.

Mayor Bloomberg’s position – however unpopular it may be – is correct. And if people would separate emotion from logic, they would realize that the horses in question aren’t “Mr. Ed” or “Trigger,” or “Silver” from The Lone Ranger series….they aren’t cuddly pets or beloved on-screen Hollywood icons. They are animals with a purpose – much the same way the chickens raised for Purdue or KFC have one purpose for their existence: Hatch, eat, get fat, be slaughtered for food. It’s their JOB – without which, the horses probably would not exist and would instead be sent to “the renderers” for processing.

On the contrary, these horses are fed, housed, cared for, and given regular medical attention – at a time when millions of Americans are homeless, hungry, sick, and suffering…where’s the concern for them?

So instead of whining about how horribly these “poor horses” are being treated, be grateful for their presence and for the role they play in one of the many things that makes New York the greatest city in the world.

Now the horses should be lucky to be working??!! That is ignorance and indifference at its finestt!! It’s ALWAYS all about the money, not right and wrong!!! And I’m so sick of it!! I think these carriages should absolutely be banned and if there’s a petition for this, I’m sure lots of people would sign it!!

Its not the entertainment (and I call it that because its definately not a sport) its the owners that dnt take care of the animals. These horses go thru pure hell and exhaustion. These so called owners should swap up these horses thru the day and see that they recieve vet care. They dnt care abt the animal they just want the money. Theres a right and wrong way of doing everything and its time America stood up and make people be more responsible!!!

The animal rights people should get a grip, a little bit of reason and a lot less emotional thinking would help. It would be interesting to see how these folk compare to the rest of the population in terms of analytical reasoning and logic. Or, if they prove just as logical as the rest of us, do they use their abilitiy to reason in emotionally challenging situations like cigarette smoking, drinking,football and sex. Oh, another thought should all contact sports be outlawed because they endanger humans? RL

There is no reason this industry should still exist in theis over crowded, over-stimulated, over-poluted city. Residents wouldn’t dream of a horse and buggy ride and tourists can find a million other “New York” things to do. Retire these horses and let them live out the rest of their lives in peace.

Have these people ever seen a working Amish farm? How about those nasty jockeys forcing the horses to race around a track. These PETA people need to get a life. If the animals are really being abused something should be done but it just doesn’t appear this is what is happening.

unfortunately horses have always been treated badly and the real fact here is that in general they’ve been treated far better today than any other time in history – people need to wake up to reality and realize horses aren’t lap dogs to keep as pets – they’ve alway worked with and for mankind in a very significant way – far less than they do now actually – children are starving and dying in new york city due to poverty and neglect, that’s what people should mobilize themselves for, not to take away the few significant jobs horses have left in our society

put bloomberg to carry around tourist stupid enough to enjoy a horse ride through cement,crazy cab drivers and big building