Black Students At Princeton Theological Seminary Want Answers

PRINCETON, N.J. (CBS 2) — It has become the talk among African American students at the prestigious Princeton Theological Seminary — racially charged fliers and postings. All of it is apparently anti-abortion literature.

Among the fliers was one that displayed a noose and another with the words “in the new klan lynching is for amateurs.”

“I was shocked and appalled that someone would place something like that up at this particular institution,” seminary student Maurice Stinnett told CBS 2’s Derricke Dennis.

“There was a lot of devastation for me, psychological damage, injury, because I saw this as social bullying,” student Shirley Thomas said.

Student leaders at the seminary, which neighbors Princeton University but is not directly affiliated, said the fliers first appeared on campus last November then reappeared in February for Black History Month.

The fliers originate from various sources, pointing out the number of African American deaths by abortion.

Student Katherine Timpte called the fliers “appalling and tragic and upsetting at all levels.”

Another student, Alex Turpin, said he thought whoever was distributing the literature had a “right to voice their opinions,” adding “personally, I wouldn’t have done it in that way.”

A statement from the seminary said it “does not tolerate racial discrimination” and “has policies that both protect freedom of speech and preclude racial harassment of any kind.”

On Wednesday, students at the seminary will hold a forum to discuss the images.

“People need to understand that racism is not dead,” Thomas said.

SOUND-OFF: What do you think about this campus controversy?  Let us know in the comments section…

Comments (116)
  1. Stef Fletcher says:

    Once again, the veil of anonymity allows a coward to comment. The constitution protects even the haters’ right to be heard — no matter how pathetic the message.

  2. The Black Girl says:

    For those in the Princeton area, you are invited to “Know The Facts: Race and Symbols in American History,” a forum on Princeton Theological Seminary’s campus on Wednesday, March 23 at 7pm in Stuart Hall #6. The address is: 64 Mercer Street. See you there for a spirited discussion!!!

  3. rosier says:

    Maybe the rates wouldn’t be so high if this country provided equal access to preventive measures, like education, birth control and regular check-ups. And although abortion is very much a controversial issue now, it has always existed in some form, generally dangerous and unsafe, for women throughout the ages (along with its’ cousin “infanticide”). Personally, as a woman, I don’t take mens comments on abortion seriously. Maybe if a man ever had the experience of the major damage a pregnancy can cause, or if they held themselves to the same puritanical sexual standards women are held to, I might. Forcing a woman to do something with her body against her will is, while also a definition of rape, also a form of servitude. Abortion is a choice that no woman makes without a heavy heart, and to use a strategy of “genocide” propaganda within black communities is to belittle the very hard choices women sometimes need to make. Implying that a woman, any woman, is actually falling prey to some conspiracy theory when they choose to take control of their own life for what they feel is best for themselves is patronizing and disrespectful. Focusing this kind of propaganda on one race is also very divisive and in no way benefits anyone. I find it insulting that anti abortion activists, the same people who think murdering doctors is ok, are trying to recruit black communities through use of paranoia, conspiracy theory, and tactics meant to divide not unite.

    1. Thomas says:

      Rosier, you are the queen of generalizations and were never taught to use SPECIFIC EXAMPLES to back up your pathetic, overly emotional and male hating remarks!

      For example, you wrote that “Abortion is a choice that no woman makes without a heavy heart”!!!! How would U know this? Did you poll each and every women who gets an abortion? Poll even a small amount of women? Why do you think you speak for all women? Very stupid and arrogant! I am 100% sure based on what I know of human behavior that MANY women abort thier BABIES with little or no concern or emotion,,,,,,

      You also miswrote: “I find it insulting that anti abortion activists, the same people who think murdering doctors is ok…..” I am glad U R insulted becauae I am sure you are overly sensitive and over-react to many issues but you are 100% wrong on this issue,,,,,again, what POLL or RESEARCH are U using to back up this ludicrious statement? Bec ause a few nuts shoot up a PP abortion clinic or an abortionist, why do you condemn ALL people that are PRO-LIFE? Very stupid! If I were your Prof, you would get an “F” for that poor writing effort above!.

      as one Pro-lifer, I have ZERO interest in controlling womens bodies or lives,,,,I want to PROTECT the INNOCENT life they are carrying for 9 months! You sound very insecure and seem to have issues as you use the tired and old argument that men want to control owmens bodies,,,,,WRONG!

      Lastly, your rational about men not being able to have an opinion on abortion is absurd,,,,,,acccording to you, any person that has not experienced an event, occupation, etc, cannot have an opinion on it! Hahahaha,,,,,most of us have not experienced many thyings in life but have opinions on them anyway! Never been US Prez but we always have an opinion on whomever it is! Most of us have NOT been politicians but have opinions on them,,,,,,,I have never been a car salesperson or realtor but with my experience with them, know most are stupid, pushy, unprofessional and not qualified for any other job,,,,,,so, I hope you do not have opinions on anything you have never experienced because you would not want anyone to call U a HYPOCRITE!!!!! Hahaha,,,,,,,IDIOT! U R probably an OBAMA voter and worshipper!

  4. Stef Fletcher says:

    Those who subscribe to racist missives like those posted on campus and choose to spread them, have no interest in the facts. It is amazing, so many people actually believe we have “come so far” since the ’60’s and claim there is racial equality in America!

    We have not come or gone anywhere since the ’60’s — sadly, we found other ways to oppress non – white people in the United States. Racism and hatred exist with a greater prevalence now because we oppress people in a more aesthetic fashion. Instead of burning crosses on lawns or hanging our fellow men from trees, we simply use other, less overt methods. For example, anonymous hate expressed via the internet, economic imprisonment, the creation of laws that apply differently to the black man than the white man or death penalty sentences for crimes a white man would not die for…

    A most noticeable change, in the often “accepted or justified” expression of hate today, is toward anyone thought to be a part of Islam or the Muslim faith (or those of us who support religious freedom).

    Hate exists as a result of the same ignorance and intolerance of the ’60’s and sadly, continues to define us as a society.

    1. Thomas says:

      Stef: You are an idiot! We have come a VERY LONG way since the 1950’s and 1960’s!!!! You are proof that people see only what they want to see!

      There have never been this many rich, upper-middle class and middle class blacks,,,,there have never been this many black college grads, never this many black MDs and lawyers and we have a black PRESIDENT (he sucks but we have one),,,,,,,,look at the make up of Bushes cabinet as well as Obamas,,,,,

      Open your eyes,,,,,,,there have never been this many black people on TV, news or actors (see Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Eddie Murphy, Samuel L Jackson, Morgan Freeman, Halle Berry, etc) and blacks dominate in the NFL and NBA,,,,,look at all the blacks who have made a fortune out of RAP music,,,,,


      1. Stef Fletcher says:

        Dear Thomas,

        I agree, the issue of an increase in the African American middle to upper class population is in fact true. However, that increase is infinitesimal compared to those who remain oppressed because of racial and socioeconomic issues. My eyes are open and sadly, they witness acts of racial intolerance on a daily basis (which has nothing to do with how much money someone makes).

        I appreciate your comments and if you asked any of the affluent people you listed above, I think you would find they agree, racism is alive and well in the US, which was the main point of my original comment.

  5. The Black Girl says:

    GOOGLE SEARCH AND READ – Strange Bedfellows: The Disingenuous Juxtaposition of Anti-Abortion and Anti-Racist Rhetoric, by Pastor Dennis Wiley

    1. Morgan S. says:

      The Rev. Wiley is spot on. He has nailed the crux of the matter: “And as I thought about all of this it dawned on me, opponents of abortion and opponents of health care reform are essentially the same people. And they are the same, not because their real issue is either abortion or health care, the unborn child or the growing deficit, the right to life or the threat of socialism. Their real issue has to do not with the preservation of life in general, but with the preservation of white, male heterosexual privilege. In other words, even though they will never tell you – because we don’t talk about those things in polite company – their real issue has to do with racism, sexism, classism, and even heterosexism.”

      I’d say resist with all your might. The discussion must occur.

      1. Stef Fletcher says:

        Thank you Morgan and yes, the discussion must occur openly because the real issue is a white one. A very difficult conversation and an even more difficult admission….

      2. Thomas says:

        Wiley is another ultra left wing loon who is lost! I am guessing he is a black racist and hates white people,,,,,,he is 100% wrong because azi am a white heterosexual male and he is wrong about me! Basically, he sounds like a mental midget who thinks too much!

  6. Appalled says:

    So let me understand this: African American theological students, studying to become ministers, are HAPPY that the abortion rate for African American women is high enough to be described as genocide by some African American feminists? They WANT very few African American babies to be born?

    The only appalling thing is that the US government uses our money to encourage the gradual extermination of valued members of our diverse nation. And that Pres. Obama, the poster child for the anti-abortion movement, cheerfully looks forward to his own daughters having abortions rather than “ruin” their lives as HIS mother did by giving birth to him!

    1. The Black Girl says:

      It has absolutely nothing to do with African American persons being HAPPY with the abortion rate of African American babies, it has everything to do with WHITE people being interested in Black women’s reproductive freedoms. Let’s look at facts:

      When white people become interested in Black women’s reproductive rights, we have 700,000 plus African American medically sterilized; when we have white people interested in Black women’s reproductive rights, we have Black women with implants in their arms; when we have white people interested in black women’s reproductive rights, we have black children without health care, adequate food and clothing, and substandard education.

      All of a sudden WHITE people are so interested in Black women’s reproductive rights, I approach it with a hermeneutic of suspicion, as every other Black people should, including the black pawns that are used to promulgate the message.

  7. crabman says:

    i guess only white folk get to have a CHOICE —-if you don’t like it move thats why its called freedom – right or wrong you get to chose

    1. Morgan S. says:

      Actually, there are whites who’re poor who are as stuck in a geographical location as any minority. This is not about choice. It is about powerful rich white men calling the shots for the other 98% of Americans. This part of their salvo, on reproductive rights, attacks women and families at their most vulnerable.

  8. Marco Cazillii says:

    OK, for the record, Margaret Sanger said the following: if we can train the Negro doctor at the clinic, he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results. . . . His work, in my opinion, should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County’s white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us. The minister’s work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs (1939)

    This is NOT a racist comment, but a concern that the message of her organization could be misinterpreted. She wanted to ensure that the truth was known, and that was NOT the message that so many are trying to attribute to her.

    CONTEXT is everything! If you read her words IN CONTEXT they don’t actually mean what so many are trying to make them to mean.

    just saying…

  9. cygon says:

    In NYC – the abortion capital of the USA, 61% abortion in the black community; 49% in the Hispanic community. 19% in the white community.

    1. The Black Girl says:

      Is this because your PRIVATE doctor doesn’t have to report your numbers? I’m just asking!!

  10. Billy Truth says:

    Reality is far too disturbing for most people. Even if the fliers are shocking, they are telling the truth. Black babies are aborted at an extremely high rate compared to any other race.

    No matter how unpopular the truth is, you can’t escape it. The woman who started planned parenthood planned this all along. She wanted the clinics in minority and poor neighborhoods so that she could help rid society of the “undesirables”. She must be laughing in her grave seeing the embracing of the concept that her plan for eugenics is a basic “right” of women.

  11. cygon says:

    PP was a nazi sympathizing, eugenics-based organization founded by a woman who absolutely abhorred minority groups that “bred like vermin” and specifically located their ‘clinics’ in black neighborhoods and targeted black churches for their “programs”. If these black babies were not slaughtered by the millions – who knows – black americans could have already been the majority group in this country. wake up and stop committing genocide on yourselves.

  12. cygon says:

    racism??? bullying??? these people are making you aware that 61% of African American babies are killed before they are born.As opposed to 21% in the population at large. They are trying to save these babies. If you black people are appalled at those stats, well….. it is you doing it.

    1. The truth hurts says:

      Amen> “There was a lot of devastation for me, psychological damage, injury, because I saw this as social bullying,” student Shirley Thomas said.
      Shirley needs to stop reading the big words in her psychology book and start looking at the facts of the situation! You should feel bullied into having an abortion not bullied because someone shows you a true statistic! That is what you are being bullied by, that is is acceptable and okay for abortion to be used as birth control for those uneducated baby ovens in the world. How is she in college?

  13. Jen O. says:

    I find it interesting that so many anti-abortion ads are aimed at black women when white women comprise a larger percentage of abortions in this country (36% white, 30% black, 25% hispanic). Why are the attacks always on the blacks? (note: I am not black, I am just raising the question)

    1. The Black Girl says:

      Thank you!! The problem with the flyer was not “targeting” ALL women who have abortions, just BLACK women. This has everythign to do wtih where people have abortions. If you have to go the local clinic, your numbers are COUNTED, if you can have it done by your private doctor, your numbers are NOT!! I’m just saying!

  14. dlauk says:

    Almost a million kids in the US in foster homes

  15. christine says:

    if women would be responsable for their own bodies we wouldnt have all these problems. its called BIRTH CONTROL>

    1. Jen O. says:

      76% of women who obtain abortions are on birth control pills. Birth control isn’t 100%.

      1. katkal says:

        BS Jen-O where are you getting your stats because they are WAY OFF! As well as your abortion/murder stats..facts are that more WHITE people want to adopt WHITE babies, there are too many black babies that need homes so there is not a “market” for them- it IS a race couples need to adopt

    2. Brandy M Miller says:

      It’s called ABSTINENCE. Learn it, live it, love it. You don’t need birth control to have control of your own body. You have a built in system to do so. Birth control poisons your body and the environment. The hormones in birth control pills are causing massive problems in the ecosystem.

  16. Dr2k2 says:

    There was a lot of devastation for me, psychological damage, injury, because I saw this as social bullying,” student Shirley Thomas said.

    Lawyer up….I think I know where Shirley is headed!!!

    1. Sarah says:

      Shirley saw this pay day coming a mile away!

  17. Roy says:

    can the US really afford to support all the babies that otherwise would have been aborted…………..I think not,. The welfare rolls have decreased along with the cost of placing thousands of unwanted children,and that’s the reality my anti abortion friends………..economics

  18. Richie P says:

    That’s not racist. They are clearly trying to reduce the instance of abortion in the african american community. Sure, they are prossibly being disingenuous, if they are just trying to reduce abortion overall and are opportunistically employing a scare tactic that they think will be effective on black people. Or they might really believe that a racist conspiracy is trying to get as many black babies aborted as possible. But eitherway, the people putting out these flyers are not themselves racist.

  19. Bob says:

    It’s called FREE SPEECH. And it works both ways.

  20. eddie says:

    it’s safe and legal because we’re not aborting human life. it’s a fetus. if it were human life, or something moderately valuable, it would be against the law. hey, i think i just came up with a viable solution to the third world protein shortage. it’s safe, it’s legal, it’s green, and it doesn’t result in loss of life. it’s a win, win, win, win situation.

  21. Ronald Lemley says:

    “Ronald, there is a world of difference between a medically necessary abortion, in which the choice is between one person (i.e. the fetus) dying or two (the fetus and the mother), and an abortion of convenience.”
    WFP- yes, I understand that distinction, but would my fanatic anti-abortion friends get that?
    These guys are one step away from hurting us all just to prove how religious they are.

  22. Ronald Lemley says:

    By the way that your real name?
    just kidding.

    1. Mara says:

      amy wrote: I agree if they are not ready to be parents don’t have sex. —

      yeah? Tell that to my husband….

  23. Ronald Lemley says:

    Look at it another way.Would any of you be offended or at least a little bit taken a back if it were your race that was singled out and the advert ot flyer read”White Genocide” in 21st century America”
    Personally, I would be offended and I’m not even white!

    1. Lina Fletcher says:

      I don’t know what ‘race’ you are? …but I am, along with the rest of the world, a member of the human race. We differ only by ethnicity. This country dwells too miuch on colour. The point of the flyer, although I would have worded it a little differently, is to bring to everyone’s attention the fact that abortion kills…and Planned Parenthood in particular which was founded by Margaret Sanger, a racist, seems to ‘market’ their services to those of African ethnicity. Look up the woman and read some of her quotes…you think those flyers are scary…

      Call it a fetus or embryo or whatever you like…it IS A BABY! Pregnant women are pregnant with babies…human life. Nothing less. When you all understand that simple premise, you will be able to understand that it is murder as 95% of all abortions are done because it is inconvenient to whomever to have the baby. Sex comes with consequences… it is the way that our species reproduces itself… Abortions are harmful to the baby, the mother, the father, their families and society. More than 50 million people have been killed by abortion since 1973. If you’re worried about death in wars, it pales against death of the innocent unborn. Afterall, they didn’t choose to be conceived or to sacrifice their lives.

      1. historian says:

        “…Planned Parenthood in particular which was founded by Margaret Sanger, a racist, seems to ‘market’ their services to those of African ethnicity…”

        It behooves you to pursue enhanced research on Margaret Sanger and the era in which she lived and worked.

      2. katkal says:

        to historian this is a quote from your “hero”
        “We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population.” Sanger was aware of African-American concerns, passionately argued by Marcus Garvey in the 1920s, that birth control was a threat to the survival of the black race. This statement, which acknowledges those fears, is taken from a letter to Clarence J. Gamble, M.D., a champion of the birth control movement. In that letter, Sanger describes her strategy to allay such apprehensions. A larger portion of the letter makes Sanger’s meaning clear:

        It seems to me from my experience . . . in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors, they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table. . . . They do not do this with the white people, and if we can train the Negro doctor at the clinic, he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results. . . . His work, in my opinion, should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County’s white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us.
        The minister’s work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs (1939).
        Personally I think she was spot on..lets get those BAD races to kill themselves off!! LOL

      3. amy says:

        I agree if they are not ready to be parents don’t have sex. They can take necessary steps to prevent pregnancy besides abortion. Little girls need to stop having sex before they are able to afford it, they do it because they miss a daddy figure. Have a new daughter in law who is 17 and has a baby and her father left her at 12 years old. She thought the baby would fill the void and regrets her choice, but she is raising him none the less. The only abortion I would support is the one where the victim was raped or the child is deformed and will not survive.

      4. justsayin' says:

        I for one think it is a good thing. I can’t imagine there is enough space in the world’s orphanages for 50 million orphans who were given up for adoption by their mother’s who did not have the capacity to raise a child. Perhaps Lina, you would be willing to adopt all 50 million babies. Even if they were forced to live with their mothers, who is going to hire all the social workers to handle all of the abuse these mothers inflict on their unwanted children, or finance the shelters because these mothers do not have the financial capacity to sustain a residence with a child.
        Whether it is murder or not, is more of a religious view than a scientific view. Some feel a soul is created once a sperm fertilizes the egg. Some may believe that if an embryo is not able to survive on its own without the life force of the host (mother) then it really is not a living being yet but more of an extension of the mother. You and those who have opposing views certainly are entitled to your opinion on whether women should be allowed the right to choose to continue with a pregnancy, however, my opinion is that women should have the freedom to choose whether to continue with the 9 months of pregnancy and a lifetime of obligation to a child or not.

  24. zugin says:

    The way the seminary went about this might have been untasteful but they are trying to expose the shocking truth about the history of abortion in this country and the racist origins of Planned Parenthood and Eugenics since the 1930’s.

    1. Lina Fletcher says:

      sorry…I pressed the wrong button… Zugin. You are correct… absolutely!!!

  25. Ronald Lemley says:

    There are a lot of really good people on here and I don’t want to offend any of you.
    You are obviously motivated by a love of children and I hope that means that you will help us to educate and care for the children that we have in the US.
    We should also be able to count on you to keep the US out of wars in which children are killed every day of the week.
    But that haveing been said you must see the distinction between this and the crime of murder because at this stage of the game the baby is still part of mom. So…..can you really say that you would prosecute every woman who has undergone the procedure???
    You would be prosecuting many of your own mothers, aunts, sisters and friends who have kept that one secret from you.Think about that.
    There is a very real distinction and its one largely ignored by men.

    1. Morgan S. says:

      Sorry, your gallantry is noted, but it’s about the womb and what it is capable of containing. If they could put women in jail for having had an abortion, they would do that. If the can put women in jail to prevent an abortion they will do that without hesitation. They’re zealots for the alliance of the religious right, those old testament Dominion reconstructionists and the plutocrats. They do not believe for a moment in social justice – they’re busy breaking it down at every turn in the US – defunding schools and breaking unions at the state level, creating a climate for media censorship by defunding Public Radio which does not have “corporate sponsorship” and therefore doesn’t give the distracting and/or biased news the corporations want put out there, attacking the charity of moderate churches as unpatriotic, and unChristian. And they’ve been building up to this for over 30 years! Don’t let them fool you. The anti-abortion movement is about creating neo-serfs in the US and they don’t give a hoot about what ethnic groups are turned into serfs. It’s all about keeping people ignorant so they can be herded arouond when the time comes.

  26. David Goldstein says:

    The abortion numbers don’t lie…why are Blacks upset?

  27. Moral Truth says:

    Why is everyone overreacting and crying racism over this article?

    There are some African American girls that get pregnant as young as 13 and thats the moral truth.

    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      The reason that they are “crying racism” over it is simply because the flyer rudely singles out black people which is, in fact, racism or , at the very least, extreme racial insensitivity, even if you don’t acknowledge that fact. This would become obvious to you if you took out the black or African American reference and substituted any other racial or cultural group.
      In the case of African Americans, they have a definate reason to be concerned about racial profiling even if the intentions are good.

      1. katkal says:

        Ronald Lemley ,
        You are such a dumb a**!!!!! YES this IS to educate the BLACK is a marketing idea that popped in someones head to get attention- and that it did!!!
        This advert wanted to target BLACK people and wanted media attention mission accomplished!

    2. The Black Girl says:

      So are you saying white girls at 13 don’t get pregnant? What is your moral truth point?

  28. MIGHTYMOUSE says:


    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      Cool it Mighty Mouse, you’re scairing the straights!

    2. jennifer says:

      Mighty Mouse… learn how to spell before you preach.

    3. AMcCaffrey says:

      “Out of an army” – you mean we should have let these children be born just to send them off to die in a war? That’s the problem with you anti-abortionists – you only care about these children BEFORE they are born.

      1. Morgan S. says:

        I think it is exactly this – that it is one of the main reasons the forced pregnancy folks are so vehemently militant. More babies born into poor working class families or worse will then grow up and come to view the military as a means of escape from poverty. But it won’t be. They will grow up to become the cannon fodder – the meat bags – for the wars against other countries whose resources American wants. The promise of upward mobility through military service is, and has been, hollow for over 30 years.

    4. alura says:


    5. alura says:

      Oh and I mean that in a nice way…mighty mouse was a cocaine sniffing mouse…that was the source of his “power”…research it. It wasn’t just snuff…

      I would rather see someone have an abortion than to give birth to a child who would be subject to abuse of many sorts, poverty, and parents disinterested in raising a child….and don’t whine about adoption, there are still not enough adoptive parents for all the kids in foster care.
      I would recommend getting a job with Child Protective Services for a while…it will certainly open your eyes-if that’s possible.

      1. jennifer says:

        <— Agrees with Alura 🙂

      2. Morgan S. says:

        Also agreeing with Alura

      3. Brandy M Miller says:

        Speaking as a survivor of abuse, I would rather be alive. Thanks for your concern. Abuse, I can get over and grow from; death – not so much. I survived poverty, too, and I must say it has made me a stronger person for going through it. Same for my 3 sisters and my brother. We are all, btw, healthy and productive members of society today – but if people like you were put in charge of the decision making, we wouldn’t be.

    6. Diane says:

      There is no place in the Bible that condemns abortion. In fact, I have been told by a Jewish friend that Jews believe the sould enters the baby as it is being born. Why aren’t people more worried about the children that are living and their welfare?

      1. Sarah says:

        Your reference to the Bible and your Jewish friend don’t coincide. Ask your Jewish friend what they think of the Bible…ignorance like that overshadows your whole statment.

  29. Glenn says:

    Some people have way too much time on their hands.

  30. Muhammad Rahman Raza says:

    I think that we should have a policy for all 7 billion people to have one kid per person if the person can show that he/she is fininancially and knowlwdgewise responsible to raise a kid. I watched Judge Judy and other court TV shows, it is shame to see so many cases of the girls having the kids and not having a responsible father to raise them so one day they are a responsible citizen. I remember in Karachi, Pakistan during summer time sparrows used to make their nest in my room. After few months little baby birds most of the time each sparrow pair have 2 eggs then babies till the babies are big enough to fly on their own parents used to feed them but as long as the little babies are big enough to fly parents used to kick them out from the nest. We should learn from these birds, we have 7 billion people in international community and most of the poor countries have almost 50% unemployment for youths.

    1. alura says:

      I LOVE Judge Judy!! I agree to the limiting children thing but even with that, if a parent has no moral compass, you still may end up with a really messed up kid who grows up to be a messed up adult…As for other countries, without good government you cannot have responsible citizens. Sadly some countries are already dictatorial or run by royalty…and they all suck at addressing the needs and wants of their people…and so many other countries’ leaders version of democracy is so askew that they have pseudo democracy…
      Anyhow I agree tho with limiting people to one child…but I doubt 3rd world nations would bother. And other nations would balk about it…

  31. mike says:

    hey Jack, wait a minute, don’t tell Shirely that she could have been aborted at birth, then she wouldn’t have to worry about it!!

  32. Brenda Lee says:

    “There was a lot of devastation for me, psychological damage, injury, because I saw this as social bullying,” student Shirley Thomas said.<<< Really? Psychological damage thats a bit much isnt it? They are words and as far as I know they can not harm you.

    1. jennifer says:


  33. Ronald Lemley says:

    And then…you are saying that the conservatives want there to be more black babies??
    One would not think so from the way that racial politics are handled in the conservative community.
    These leaflets are just another blatant example of the racial insensivity of the conservatives.

    1. WFP says:

      Ronald, the people who are calling these posters racist are missing the point of the posters. These posters are pointing to the fact that the abortion rate among African Americans is the highest of any ethnic/racial group in the US. It is suggesting that abortion providers are more likely to encourage abortions for Black women than for any other group, rather than suggest or seek alternatives (such as adoption). Abortion providers have already taken the position that a fetus is not a human being. They are therefore more likely to counsel a woman mired in poverty, or an endangered teenager, to have an abortion rather than bring a child into a life of poverty and potential misery. Statistically, such women would be disproportionately African American. These posters are, in effect, suggesting that the real racists are the abortion providers and that they are in effect committing genocide since the direct outcome of their counsel is the reduction of births among Black women.

      And I wish you would stop calling opposition to abortion a “conservative” position. Opposition to abortion is neither a conservative nor a religious position; you will find many self-described liberals and agnostics/atheists who oppose abortion. Nor is support for abortion rights necessarily a “feminist” position: google “feminists for life”.

      I maintain that support for abortion rights is NOT a liberal position, but rather the most illiberal position one can take. In my understanding of the word, a liberal is supposed to side with the weak and defenseless.What is more weak and defenseless that the child in the womb? When there is doubt, a liberal is supposed to give the benefit of the doubt. Since the whole abortion issue depends on whether a fetus is a human being, the fact that one side says it is and the other begins with the assumption that it isn’t, that means there is doubt. So the true liberal would err on the side of caution and assume until decisively proven otherwise, that the fetus is a person.

      A true liberal, in other words, would oppose killing of any kind–including war, abortion, and capital punishment.

      1. jennifer says:

        You would be incorrect in your assumption WFP. By law, these places can not convince anyone who walks in their clinic to have an abortion over adoption. They simply give them pamphlets on abortion and the alternatives (adoption by the way) and let them make the decisions on their own. They don’t say “Oh, well you came here requesting information on abortion, so we are going to haul you in a back room right now and take care of your fetus that is not yet a human being”… It is your misconceptions of what these clinics provide that is comical. They do not converse with a possible patient about their choices and what they “should do” and most certainly are not more inclined to indicate that someone should get an abortion simply because they see a person of color or poverty come in the office. That is simply laughable. Pro life or pro choice, you should still learn all the facts on both sides before “casting stones” on the wrong facts. Whatever your position is, I respect you for it… just don’t agree with your sources.

      2. katkal says:

        Well said..finally someone with a real brain here! There should NO longer ever be a need for sucking out a baby- having someone make sure all the “parts” came out..and telling some “lady” all done go home.. ( I know medical background as a midwife) There are now drugs like the morning after pill that will not allow implantation and so we should never ever need to hear the word ABORTION again!
        And to those of you who support planned parenthood..I went into PP at 16 years old- a virgin before the 1 time I got pregnant. They told me ( I was 4 MONTHS along) that all “it” was , was a blob of tissue, and they would just suck it out of me- no problems and no one would know, they gave me a room and a gown, I was freaked out so they also gave me something to calm down- Then..guess it was a God thing- I don’t know but I felt a jump in my belly..and thankfully I got up, got dressed and left the room. I now have a beautiful daughter- who has an awesome husband, amazing kids and a wonderful home..To think she could have wound up in the bottom of a glass jar for someone to have to make sure all her parts were there!!!!!!!!! No one ever told me that abortion KILLED- and I thank God every day that something made me get up and RUN..I would have killed myself if I found out that I MURDERED my baby and not just “got rid of a blob of tissue”

      3. WFP says:

        Good morning Jennifer. I just saw your comments. Sadly, there is nothing “comical” or “laughable” about my “assumptions” because they are not assumptions. There is ample evidence–in the form of anecdotal accounts, legal cases reported in the media, and research-based studies–to bear out my point regarding what sort of information abortion counselors deliver and how they deliver it.

        Although the requirements differ from state to state, abortion providers are required by law to provide information regarding abortion and its alternatives. The job of the counselor is to deliver that information and to answer any and all questions. That is why they are called counselors; they counsel, which means to explain, clarify, and offer advise. Planned Parenthood and other abortion-providing organizations offer counseling but resist and challenge (in court) the legal requirements to provide information regarding the negative aspects of abortion and possible alternatives. That part of the mandated information is provided unwillingly and often perfunctorily.

        Counselors, like everyone else, are human beings, and their personal beliefs affect how and to what degree they deliver the information they are charged with. I have not suggested here that they try to “convince” women to have abortions–that is your word–but their beliefs do color the way in which they counsel, how they present information and how much they provide. In a related example, HIV prevention counselors are required to present information on sexual abstinence as a method of preventing HIV infection. For many who don’t see abstinence as a practical option that means a simple one-sentence statement to the effect that abstinence is the only 100% effective preventive measure. The rest of the lecture then focuses on such things as condom choice and usage.

        The fact that these people are crisis pregnancy counselors implies that they have already come to terms with abortion and see it as the lesser of two evils. They are, therefore, more likely to downplay any negatives and, often indirectly, emphasize the positive outcome of termination. What limited studies there are of abortion in the African American community seem to bear this point out: faced with the choice of a woman bringing a child into a world of dire poverty and limited options, many counselors would be tempted to downplay the negative and help a woman come to a positive attitude towards a choice for abortion.

        I am not trying to demonize counselors here, as you are suggesting, but I am saying that they too are human and that the information they provide is often shaped by their biases. Sadly, the perception in the end is that, faced with a life of poverty and probably deprivation, the conclusion is that this (often Black) life would be better off if it did not come into the world.


  34. time out says:

    Just connect the DOTS. The facts are the facts. I believe that the black population in this country deserves the same benefits and education as every other race. But if they keep destroying their own race and refuse to take advantage of free education they are leading themselves back into the path of economic slavery. Taxpayer dollars have failed ti stem the tide. Equal opportunity has failed to stem the tide. The Black population is destroying itself through violence, drugs, lack of moral standards, and hence abortion. The blame is within themselves, just as it would be with any other race. Equal opportunity should have been enough.

  35. Ronald Lemley says:

    Actually, Ryan is correct here.I was a little off base in my assumption that everyone who is against abortion is also pro-war.Where would I have gotten such a far off notion?
    Maybe I was falsely extrapolating the fact that nearly all conservatives(which you may not consider yourself)are pro-war and are also anti-abortion and anti-school funding.
    You are quite correct.Only 99.999% of all conservatives follow this predictable pattern, the rest of you may certainly be….liberals or moderates except on this one issue.From the comments, I find this completely unlikely, but you may be right.
    My supposition here is that some people, including myself are generally against abortion,except perhaps in the case of rape.I may be different from most of you in recognising the inherent danger in illegal abortions and also in my support of the services which would sustain or help raise those kids once they are born.Why encourage people to have them and then vote down all school bonds as Republicans have done in lock step for decasdes?
    And-why put your support behind war that kill mothers and children?
    If you don’t then that’s commendable, but I don’t think it makes you a liberal or even a non-conservative.You’re certainly against a woman’s right to choose what she does to her own body aren’t you?
    The more important issue that has not been touched by anyone in this thread, is the ugly exploitive racial angle of the campaign which indeed used race as a way of broadcasting the issue in a very distasteful and insensative way., which seems, excuse me, so typically conservative not to care about the feelings of minorities even to the point of violating their constitutional rights.
    It also doesn’t adress the fact that making a law against abortion does nothing to prevent women from the age old practice of back alley abortions and their ugly track record for infection and death.

  36. claris says:

    CLARITY HAPPENS and Truth hurts, Please merely listen to Malcolm X he stated clearly the The Masters would use the house slaves to keep the pease with the field hands. This is no different than that. The Elite rised up certain blacks for just that reason, to keep the rest of the black population from ever threatening the true powers. So the truth is our Government is so very corrupted that it turns the Truth into Lies and places most of these clinics in all black areas. Just look it up, it’s all there. over 55 million blacks were never born and in some areas the abortion rate was 7 to 1, blacks aborting 7 to 1 against all other races. Tell me is that not a bullseye. CLARITY HAPPENS and the truth is out there all in print and in vid. Just see what the founder of plan parenthood stated clearly about blacks. Government paid privately owned clinics, Governement paid Private Prison system, Government paid PRIVATE HOMELAND SECURITY. CLARITY HAPPENS and the TRUTH HURTS but is hurts the power bases set up to keep us all down as a human race, forever divided, and in that division they conquer all the races, turn a REPUBLIC into a DEMOCRACY and now into a FASCISTIC TOTALITARIAN STATE, NOT A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY. AWAKEN

  37. Charles says:

    Funny, I can’t watch a Knicks, Rangers, or Yankees game without seeing a gruesome and unsettling anti-smoking commercial meant to disturb and upset the public into changing their behavior. These graphic commercials are paid for with taxpayer money ostensibly to save lives and to protect the public from their own destructive tendencies. When a private organization uses their own money to similarly discourage the wanton destruction of life, however, the liberals become apoplectic about it. I don’t see how educating people about the evils of abortion is any different from educating them about the evils of smoking. The only difference is that smoking only kills sometimes, whereas abortion kills 100% of the time.

    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      But..Charles: Does that particular anti-smoking advert also target a specific race and exploiit their denegration and slavery?
      My guess would be that they do not.

      1. My2cents says:

        This could very well just be a “coincidence” that the flyers were distributed during black history month. The story doesn’t take that into consideration. As far as abortions in African Americans being higher then any other major ethnicity in the U.S. sounds to me like someone who knows their facts. The adds aren’t far off from the “Truth anti-smoking adds”. I agree w/ freedom of speech 100%. BUT, people should at least make attempts to be considerate about the words they choose to say imo Nicotine is blind, it doesn’t target any specific race, It’ll eventually kill anyone who smokes long enough. And sorry Ronald, I’m failing to see where these “flyers” exploited anything about slavery.

        TL;DR- life is short, enjoy what you make of it. . And if you don’t like a particular commercial, you have the right to turn it off. If you don’t like a particular flyer, tear it down. If you don’t like what someone has to say, you have the right to “tune them out and walk away” It takes no more then 1/2 a second to glimpse at the pictured flyer and make a on the fly decision whether you want to read more, or know right then if it will offend you. I’m not delving into religion, as that subject is just as touchy as race AND abortion for alot of people. But the serenity prayer is a beautiful thing.

    2. broyland says:

      Charles, I wonder how man people would watch a baby walk into traffic without warning them of sure DANGER. These flyers are going for the shock value no doubt.

  38. DaveHowell says:

    THERE IS NO CAUSE FOR ALARM PEOPLE: Princeton Theological Seminary is not a real seminary if there are women students or women professors, which there are, as you can see from the article. I have read the Bible. Christianity is not what your warm fuzzy feelings guide you to, fa&&ots, rather, Christianity is what the Bible says it is, FYI, Dr. Quinn medicine kun+. Keep Somalian piracy SAFE and LEGAL! Keep carjacking SAFE and LEGAL! Keep home burglary SAFE andLEGAL, ’cause it will happen no matter what you do. DO NOT DRIVE DUMPING OF INDUTRIAL POLLUTANTS UNDERGROUND! Then the pollutor will not tell you, and you’ find out about it when much more damage has been done. KEEP DUMPING OF TOXIC INDUSTRIAL POLLUTANTS IN PUBLIC WATERWAYS SAFE AND LEGAL, because it’s going to happen anyway. History (or herstory)tells us this much.

    1. time out says:

      spoken like a true aggressive AGNOSTIC> Or Muslim in sheeps clothing,

    2. Ronald Lemley says:

      Dave-Your reaching here and your analogies are completely lame and offensive, especially considering that the people who are generally ravenously anti-abortion are the same conservatives who are so keen on deregulating the heavy polluters..
      Were things really so much better when abortions were illegal or did they cause a lot of women to go to unhegenic and dangerous places?

  39. Bronx Bengal says:

    CBS is so desperate for an “exclusive” story that they advertised this bit heavily in teasers all night — “Tune in at 11 for RACISM IN THE IVY LEAGUE”… and then found out that this was at Princeton Theological Seminary, which has nothing to do with Princeton University. Oops! Quick, I need a rewrite!

  40. DaveHowell says:

    You know, bribery of public officials is always going to happen. People somehow have this nebulous notion that by making bribery of public officials illegal, that bribery of public officials will cease. However, on matters from zoning laws to awarding of government contracts, bribing of public officials will always take place. Why drive it underground? Impeachments, jail time, loss of office, fines… in short the destruction of a career, family, and other elements of status and lifestyle when a public official gets caught accepting a bribe. Keep bribery of public officals SAFE and LEGAL. Oh, and then the same people who want to make it illegal because a public official took a $3,000 bribe for example have to pay $30,000 per year for that official to stay in prison. Makes no sense! Keep bribery of public officials SAFE and LEGAL.

  41. DaveHowell says:

    Drunk drivers already have a tremendous sensory burden when they are drunk. Since drunk driving has been made more undesirable, mostly through the police/courts, drunk drivers have to pay more attention to where the police are at this intersection or that intersection as they cannot afford to get caught. This is not good, because the drunk driver does not pay attention to actual driving conditions as much. Listen, drunk driving is always going to happen; you and I are not going to stop it! So why make the situation worse? Keep drunk driving SAFE and LEGAL.

    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      Now you’re really out there.
      Don’t you know that we liberals don’t drink?
      We smoke pot, you know that. Of course the really hard cases like myself, do neither but we also don’t drive.

  42. DaveHowell says:

    You know, arsonists make so many mistakes when committing arson: they do not inform tenants that the the structure that they’re occupying about to be engulfed in flames, or the arsonists will not pay attention to what they’re doing because of the fear of getting caught by the police. Arson, though, as we all know, is always going to happen. Keep arson safe and legal! No more unsafe arson! You cannot stop arson, so why make it more dangerous by keeping it illegal?

    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      Dave- The obvious difference here is that NONE of the things that you are mentioning in your lame attempt at irony, have ever been legal, so there is no before and after sense of consequesnces versus lack there of.
      We do know what it was like when abortion was illegal, and it was not better unless you think that all of those women don’t count and that their safety is inconsequential.

  43. DaveHOwell says:

    Rape is so much more dangerous when it’s illegal. Keep rape safe and legal! Why make the rapists fear getting caught? Then they many times hurt/threaten/kill their victims. Rape is going to happen no matter what… you know it and I know it. Let’s make rape safe for rapists and rapists’ victims.

  44. DaveHowell says:

    Armed robbery also should be legal, because when it’s illegal, back-alley robbers hurt their victims with much greater frequency because they”re afraid to get caught. Keep armed robbery safe and legal!

  45. Jay says:

    Ya, ban abortions so the resulting babies can be allowed to starve or die from lack of medical attention.

    How about we sterilize Christians

  46. Ronald Lemley says:

    I am against war, which someow seems to be okay in the conservative book because it implies some sense of false nobility and protection against a non existant enemy.
    How can you be for war and against abortion? Explain this to me since war so often targets mass numbers of civilians including children.It also doesn’t make sense that conservatives consistantly vote against education and health care.
    In realty, no one likes abortion, but making a law against it has not worked in the past and only serves to make it more dangerous.

    1. Ryan says:

      A bit off topic and you have just lumped everyone who disagrees with you into ‘conservatives’ and assume they think the same. Questioning why we have racial disparity in abortions does not mean you are a conservative, or you are for war, or you vote against education bills (obviously any bill that spends money on education should be voted for unless you are a evil conservative).

      I’m against war and against dictators slaughtering their own populations, and shame on Obama for not being able to think of a better solution like as asking nicely.

    2. WFP says:

      Ronald, the crux of the argument, the point that so-called pro-choice advocates refuse to engage with, is the question of whether a child in the womb is just that, a living human being or something not quite human. In the Roe v Wade decision Harry Blackmun and his concurring justices decided that under the constitution it is not yet a human being with protected rights. Sadly, This is the discussion we really need to have, and it is the discussion that the producers of the fliers at the center of this article is trying to make people have. But it is the discussion Blackmun and company cut off before we could have it.

      If you REALLY believe that the child in the womb is just that, and taking its life is wrong, then it seems to me we should support laws that outlaw it even if such laws are regularly flouted. After all, murders occur every day, yet we still have laws against murder.

      1. Ronald Lemley says:

        Yes, good point yet you are ignoring the fact that a Supreme Court decision has already been made which supports a woman’s right to choose.
        In the final analysis you are quite right.That is the crux of the argument and its one of those chicken and eggg arguments that will go on forever.
        The whole thing is meaningless in the light of the fact that we women will continue to do this thing.if itb is against the law or not and we must be ready for that.Realisticly, are we planning to be literally minded about and condemn them to death for mudering their own fetus? That’s where the whole thing breaks down.
        The strict anti-abortionists seem to be in denial about the idea that the fetus is also part of the person that it is attached to.That part of the argument seems male centered because it denies the mothers role to a great extent.
        In any case you do have to agree that it is not illegal in many places since Roe V Wade has not been completely turned over.

      2. WFP says:

        “…you are ignoring the fact that a Supreme Court decision has already been made which supports a woman’s right to choose.”

        No, I am not ignoring that fact. However, what I am saying is that just because the Supreme Court has ruled so does not make it right, even though it may be legal. What I am saying is that the SC got it wrong in a big (and tragic) way. In the Dred Scott decision Roger Taney and company similarly ruled that Africans were not human beings with constitutionally protected rights. Rather, they were the property of their owners, who could take them wherever they wanted and do with them as they wished. Because the SC said it was legal, and slaver owners were not likely to give up their constitutional property rights, does that mean slavery opponents should have just throw up their hands about it?

        “The strict anti-abortionists seem to be in denial about the idea that the fetus is also part of the person that it is attached to”

        It seems to me that here you are taking the position that a fetus is not REALLY an individual human being, but rather someone’s appendage. More to the point, anti-abortion/pro-life people are not “in denial” about anything: they are emphatically saying the a fetus is NOT someone’s appendage but a person temporarily dependent on someone else for sustenance.

        In the end what I think is needed is consistent and dignified civil protest; consistent and dignified attempts to educate and engage. Hopefully the message will eventually get through.

  47. Angela says:

    Abortion IS genocide of the HUMAN race! Good for these students who spread the truth! There is no choice for the young women killed in an abortion. The baseline is that ALL humans deserve life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness- including the unborn. Since abortion happens at a rate of every 22 second in the US alone (3600 per day, 1 million + per year), it rightfully fits the definition of genocide. A unique genetic human is created at conception. People need to get sexually responsible and know that sex IS the only way to get pregnant. It should be enjoyed, but NOT at the cost of another human life. Contraceptives yes, slaughter, NO! Oh, and to mix rape into the arguement is intellectually dishonest since only 1% of abortion results from rape. Visit: to learn more.

    1. Ronald Lemley says:

      I almost agree with you except for the fact that my wife was once forced to have an emergency procedure which resulted, in effect, in an abortion.
      She was later found to have benign tumors on her uterous and had to have a total hysterectomy. We were never able to have children.
      Am I supposed to think that she is evil for having done this because she might not be alive today if it hadn’t been for that procedure.
      The other issue is the ugly eploitation of race and the emotions associated with slavery and racial violence that taget a single racial group.That is what makes this thing so unfair and the fact that no one in this thread seems to understand that says a lot about the mind set of the anti-abortion crowd.
      The emotion of the issue often makes people do things that aren’t in the best interest everyone concerned.

      1. WFP says:

        Ronald, there is a world of difference between a medically necessary abortion, in which the choice is between one person (i.e. the fetus) dying or two (the fetus and the mother), and an abortion of convenience.

      2. Brandy M Miller says:

        Abortion is a behavior that is evil. It doesn’t make the person who has one evil. The goal of every doctor in the case of trying to save the life of a pregnant woman should be to save them both. Sometimes that isn’t possible and one dies. Sometimes both do. It’s a tragedy, but it’s a much greater tragedy to deliberately kill your own child in order to save your own life.

  48. Jack McGee says:

    Why would Planned Parenhood be involved in this so-called anti-abortion literature? PP LOVES abortion!!!! I think whoever published this literature sent a good message to the black community and tried to be shocking,,,,,,,should have circulated them in places like Harlem, parts of Brooklyn, etc, not this LIBERAL Princeton Seminary,,,,

    As far as Shirley Thom,as is concerned, she needs to GROW UP!!!!! She says she was “psychological damgaed” and felt “socially bullied” (whatever that is?) and points out the MEGA-OBVIOUS that “racism still exists”!!!!! Thanks for the tip, “genious”!!!! How can a person who is so overly sensitive, not very bright and see’s life from an extreme viewpoint become a minister/preacher? Well, I guess if crazy Rev Wright ( a true loon) can preach, anyone can!!!!

    Stop being so sensitive,,,,,,,the publishers make a good point (I guess without reading any of the text,,,only know what was reported),,,,,

    1. Jack McGee says:

      Just want readers to know thta “Jack McGee” is a pseudonym (fake name),,,,,

      1. broyland says:

        you would’t like me when i’m angry

  49. Wyatt says:

    This is laughable. This article doesn’t even talk about the issue that the flyers are attempting to bring awareness to–it only mentions the college students’ reactions to the flyers and then goes on to label the flyers that are attempting to bring awareness to a perceived form of racism as racist because they use a form of racial imagery to make a point. That’s like calling 1960s freedom fighters racist for using pictures of a disfigured Emit Till to bring awareness to Jim Crow Era violence. Ridiculous.

    1. Jack McGee (psuedonym) says:

      Good point!

  50. mike says:

    yea , tell me about, killing babies is ”not appalling” , only reading about it , so much for the liberal media being non bias, I guess they figure the more dead black babies the better, wake up afro america, you cant suceed if you kill off your own race, have babies and live !!

    1. Jack McGee (pseudonym) says:


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