NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Over the weekend, CBSNewYork’s editorial team published a guide to New York City’s horse and carriage industry, with information for those looking to take a ride.

While the guide was intended to be just that — a guide to our readers in and around New York City — the piece generated an unanticipated level of reaction from folks debating the issue of animal cruelty.

Here at, we’ve covered the controversy surrounding horse carriages closely.

After two horses died in Manhattan last fall,  the president of the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages, Elizabeth Forel, was one of the animal-rights activists to speak out.

“Horses don’t belong in the city,” she said. “It’s very upsetting.”
(Have your own opinion?  Cast a ballot in our unscientific poll and leave your thoughts in the section at the bottom of the page.)

In the midst of the horse deaths,  Mayor Bloomberg weighed in on the issue, disagreeing with those against the business of horse-drawn carriages. He expressed his belief that the industry is a staple of local tourism.

“The way we pay our municipal employees and the way we pay them is with taxpayers’ money and the taxpayers depend on tourists coming here, and going out in carriages are just one of those things that they do,” Bloomberg said.

“Most of [the horses] probably wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t have a job,” Bloomberg said.

Ian McKeever, spokesperson for the Horse & Carriage Association, told CBSNewYork that he agrees with the mayor.

“All a horse wants is to have a job. If horses weren’t doing this, they’d be dead. We’re doing a credit to these horses by giving them a job and looking after them,” he said.

In light of the outrage sparked by our guide, we reached out again to Forel.

“Every poll that has been taken since 2006 has shown that at least 75 percent of respondents want a ban of the industry,” Forel told us.

“Why you decided to promote the carriage industry in Atlanta, Seattle, New York…is beyond me.”

What’s more, Carly Knudson, the Executive Director of New Yorkers for Clean Livable & Safe Streets (NYCLASS), started a petition in an effort to have the article removed from our site.

“The carriage horse industry forces its animals to work long hours in treacherous conditions.  News organizations like CBS New York should be scrutinizing this industry instead of promoting it,” Knudson said.

Meanwhile, McKeever  told us that horses spend nine months of the year working and 3 months of the year on a farm – where they receive some of the best care in the country.

“Animal activists are entitled to their opinion, but they are unequivocally, 100 percent wrong,”  McKeever said.

He pointed out that the Horse and Carriage Association of New York has never received a cruelty ticket in the 30 years that he’s been with them.

“We will invite anybody to come into our business and take a look at our horses and stables.”

But what about the protestors that are often found in Central Park?

According to the carriage operator Robert Boyle, those are just the few squeaky wheels.

“Obviously if people didn’t want us, we wouldn’t be in business. The only reason we’re here is because people take rides,” Boyle said.

“You come out here at Christmastime and watch a thousand people lined up waiting to take a carriage ride – that should be the answer to your question.”

We reached out to the City Council for a statement on the issue. The office was quick to point out recent legislation the city passed on the treatment of working horses, and passed along a statement from Council spokesperson Robin Levine.

“The legislation requires horse operators to provide their rental horses with at least five weeks of vacation a year, in a location with daily pasture access,” Levine said.

Additionally, the laws restrict the ages at which horses may be licensed to work, increased the number of mandatory annual veterinary visits and requires carriages to carry blankets and have proper safety measures in place.

Where do you stand on the issue of horse-drawn carriages in New York City?

Comments (305)
  1. Frank says:

    From the looks of the video where he horses are kept, it looks clean, well managed. It is a tourist attraction, not only in Central Park, NY but in Europe as well. In Vienna, Austria, they also have carriage rides as do they in Salzburg near the Cathedral. As someone else pointed out, what’s the difference if people use sheep dogs to corral live stock. These animals are in Central Park away from the main traffic. It is a nostalgic ride. Horse and carriage goes back hundreds of years. Another person noted why is it different if one drags a trailer for a horse to participate in racing around a race track? We have always used animals to work – like the donkeys, the elephants in the jungle. If it is extremely hot then perhaps they should be left in their horse stalls but otherwise, it does bring the tourists.

  2. Jasmin Horst Seiler says:

    The users and profiteers it seems, all have the sort of the same attitude, it’s only a horse, who cares, it’s the same with all the other animal industries, good for pulling carriages, for policemen, for slaughter, pets, etc, etc, slaves to our whims, why, because they’re are only a horse, a dog, a…….. slavery of another species, the slave owners usually the same,and have all the same answers, scientific baffle gab, compassion though is usually lacking, it seems, their lmbic brain has atrophied maybe, and I would doubt if at all most of them would help the homeless, compassion for another would need to play a role……….

    1. Karrie Johnson says:

      The Carriage topic aside. It is a very dark day for anyone to compare the horrors of Human Slavery to owning an animal pet or working. As someone who was on the fence the above statement clearly indicates to me that its not the carriage horse industry that is the problem. It takes a very unwell mind to think that ownership of an animal at all compares to slavery. I wonder how the NNACP or some of the other cultures of humanity that have had to suffer with actual slavery would view your words @ Jasmin. Also a simple google provides your affiliations with PETA . Knowing you a supporter of an organization who’s MO is “Better of Dead” I must then take your words in the same context. There is nothing wrong with the symbiotic relationship between humans and animals.

  3. Frances Mackiewicz says:

    Why don’t they just keep the horses inside Central Park and off the streets. I would rather see people enjoy the best of both at least the horses will be safe from harm. I am not in favor of the horses being on the street. The traffic is too dense and populated on the streets and there is more potential danger of the horses being killed. The Mayor of NY has to do his job to protect these animals just like he does the people.

  4. Sharon J. Kennedy says:

    The heavy labor of pulling a carriage loaded down with passengers thru montrous and resentful traffic is cruel and abusive. Doesn’t anyone remember when Gwen Verdun generously paid the vet bills for a horse that crippled by a car?

    Using animals to earn a living is just a lazy person’s way to avoid doing work. If they earn the money to put a roof over a person’s head they are entitled then to receive a compassionate retirement….in fact, St. Francis advocated for such a compassion that animals who labored for humanity must be given a proper retirement! We all know that once an animal’s usefulness is over, they are sent to the horror of the slaughterhouse…..If you love God, respect His commandments concerning compassion with and for the animals.

    1. Stephanie Ann says:

      Obviously, this is a skill unknown to you , as if it was, you would not embarrass yourself with a comment like this. Although I am not a driver , I have some experience driving a small cart, and have attended clinics in school on driving. It is not a simple task. The Carriage drivers make it look easy. But , until you try it, you can not validly judge. Its like people say ..all you do is just sit on a horse to ride. Nope. Not at all. There is a lot more into it. But most outsiders do not see that.

  5. millie says:

    Horses do not belong in the streets on NY. These horses are forced to work long hours carrying tourists in heavy NYC traffic. New Yorkers are against this and would vote to ban if they could. Its only the tourists, the ignorant and those profiting from the horses who support this inhumane and archaic industry.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Horses have been living and working in NYC since the city was founded in the 1600s. Many New Yorkers have publicly stated their support for the NYC carriage horses including well-known actors, celebs and your own mayor. Carriage driving is humane and very popular the world over. HRH Prince Phillip (husband of HRH Queen Elizabeth) was a competitive carriage driver in his younger years.

      For more info on NYC carriage hroses, go to–

      For a photo of the British Monarch’s Royal Mews (stables) go here (please remember that QE is tought to be the richest woman in the UK.);_ylt=A0PDoS5trFJPxDYA.3eJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?

  6. walknyc says:

    FACT: From October 23 to December 4, there were 4 very troublesome incidents involving NYC carriage horses. On October 23, Charlie collapsed and died on W. 54th Street; on October 28, an unnamed horse (“baby face,” I heard) spooked on Central Park South, raced headlong into traffic, turned into the park and crashed his carriage (police offers were there but did NOT file a police report); November 4, Luke fell on W. 60th Street near the Mandarin Oriental hotel; on December 4, a white horse at the hack line, near the Plaza Hotel.

    FACT: During a 10-day period in july 2011, there were not one but TWO serious accidents; a carriage driver was in a coma for weeks and 3 tourists from Ohio were hospitalized.

    FACT: Illegal overcharging is not uncommon in the NYC carriage industry, and this is documented in video that is posted online; evidence about specific violations was entered into testimony during the January 2009 hearing at City Hall, at which Department of Consumer Affairs officials displayed their ignorance about the legal fare; the DCA and the city have repeatedly ignored evidence presented to them about the illegal overcharging of tourists in this cash-only industry.

    FACT: the city covers for this industry, which spends a lot of money on fancy lobbyists. Why does the city cover for this industry?

    1. Carriage business is outdated- says:

      So sorry to read today that another carriage horse is down in Memphis, TN at the trolley line. What next? This is why it needs to be stopped….now.

      1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

        Jim, a carriage horse in Memphis reportedly suffered an aneurysm just like Olympic Show Jumper Hickstead did a couple months ago. When a horse suffers an aneurysm, if is fatal. There is NOTHING anyone can do.

        Having one’s horse suffer an aneurysm is very distressing and upsetting to a horse’s owner or driver, as well as anyone who is involved in his care. It is a horrible experience to stand by helplessly while your horse collapses unconscious and dies within a minute or so.

        Jim’s owner and all who knew him are stunned and grieving his loss. They do not need to be further disturbed or stressed at this time. You all need to have some respect and restrain yourselves.

        Let us all hope that Jim’s owner will be spared the torment of having photos of his or her horse spread all over the internet as was done with poor Charlie– by the unfeeling radical anti-carriage horse extremists.

    2. LynnWood Farms says:

      FACT: Charlie collapsed and died blocks from his stable minutes into a work shift. A full necropsy was preformed by the veterinarians of Cornell U. No specific cause of death was found. The released report can be read here.
      and quoted here
      ” According to the ASPCA, which performed the necropsy at Cornell, Charlie’s liver showed signs of scarring, and the agency wrote they “cannot rule out recent toxin exposure, abnormal heartbeat or allergic reaction,” but that the horse was in “good nutritional condition,” when he died.”

      Additionally this of course sparked controversy over the ASPCA’s intentional original release of false implications in the horses cause of death which later had to be retracted by lead veterinarian Dr. Corey for which she openly admitted she was pressured to release falsified information about the horses health and then suspended when she retracted.

      FACT : Luke the horse who fell on Nov.4th was off shift and returning to the barn. Bucked and caught his hind leg over the shaft of the carriage. Tangling himself in the harness and causing him to fall. He laid quietly until un harnessed and was allowed to rise. He was checked and cleared in good health both by the ASPCA inspector and his veterinarian and found to be sound and in good health.

      FACT: The grey gelding that fell on Dec. 4th lost his footing coming around a corner. Driver stated he was attempting to get his clients out of harms way ..they were being followed and harassed by a back of animal protesters jeering and waving signs in front of the horse. The horse slipped as he rounded the corner fell and laid quietly until he was un hitched. His hind legs were tangled in the harness. Once un harnessed he rose was walked un hitched back to the stables where he was checked and cleared by the ASPCA inspector and his veterinarian.

      If you are suggesting per your “FACTS” walknyc that horses are neither allowed to die of natural causes or ever trip in NYC because both indicate abuse. Please provide your proof to support that. Also remember it is on record that both horses that fell were inspected and it was recorded that they were in good health with no injury after their ordeal and cleared to return to work.

      FACT : The accident that happened on July 26th a yellow taxi cab REAR -ENDED a carriage. Yes you read that right a driver not paying attention hit the carriage. yes people were hurt and the horse was injured ..could you imagine if that neglectful driver of the cab had hit a rickshaw or even work a pedestrian. Since there are farm more fragile things that in-habit the streets of NYC maybe they should have harsher vehicle negligence laws.

      FACT: No less then Four organizations inspect and regulate the NYC Carriage industry. The ASPCA , Department of Health, The Department of Parks and the Department of Consumer Affairs. With at least quarterly inspections out of the Department of Health and the Department of Parks and the ASPCA doing random anytime unannounced inspections it sounds like they are more regulated then most industries.

      1. Carriage business is outdated- says:

        Rattling on and on. —Just because you post it doesn’t means it is so…hit the dusty trail. It’s over now.. Horse carriage business days are numbered. Have a great week! ……life.

        1. LynnWood Farms says:

          Responding by being snarky and glib shows how precariously your platform clings to life. A house built on the sand indeed.

          CBO neither you nor your activists friends have provided an ounce of FACT to support your implications of abuse.

          1. No Blinders Required says:

            Not in NY, but I have witnessed first hand, after a long day of hauling heavy people, in all types of weather, the horses additionally, have to pull their carriages up several steep stories in their building before ending their shift. It is suggested that vintage cars (electric) take the place of carriages and horses. That would be a better “tourist” attraction. A much more humane solution for the lives of equine.

            1. LynnWood Farms says:

              @ No Blinders Required. You are a perfect example of what is really going on. A few people with agendas have preyed on empathetic people like you and fed you miss information.

              ALL of the Carriage stables are multi storied you are correct. Where you are grossly miss informed . No horses have to haul their “heavy” carriages up multiple steep stories. All of the carriages are stored on the first floor along with other supplies. The horses are hitched and unhitched on that floor and themselves walk up shallow matted ramps to their stables.

              While compassionate what your response tells me is that you have taken no steps to confirm any of the things you’ve heard or been fed and thusly are emotionally disturbed about things that are just not the truth.

              Why do you think we are constantly asking for proof or more then just hearsay from those that oppose the industry. Simply because for the most part its just someone else’s false propaganda being proselytized to people like you , blameless yet ignorant of the truth and so baldly wanting to protect that you’ll believe their garbage without questioning.

              Do you know that the “vintage cars” are being produced by Steve Nislick a real estate mogul who has his sites set on the properties the stables are currently occupying also the founder of NYClass the organization that is producing the electric cars and going to RENT them to the city. So he stands to make insane amounts of money on both ends of the banning of carriage horses. both of his fleet of cars and the development of the stables into more storage and parking facilities like his other properties. Tell me he is in it for the love of horses ??

              1. No Blinders Required says:

                > LynnWood Farms: evidently you can’t read! Not in NYC was the opening of my post, duh! I HAVE seen it in the South…not garnishing empathy. Just stating the facts I have seen. You are so trigger happy to jump to conclusions about every post you read and attack. My emotions are in check…but you seem to create things in your own mins if people express differently than you. It obviously drives you crazy. Slow down, take a deep breath, and compose your thoughts.
                Yes, Mr. Nislick stands to make money. It will be off electric cars and not the sweat off horses pulling those overloaded carriages and living a tortured and miserable life. You have a problem with capitalism? I’m sure he pays his taxes, unlike some people in the carriage industry, I hope he makes millions!

                1. Debbie says:

                  No Blinders Required, nicely done. Lynwwod Farms has done nothing but bash anyone with an opinion other his/hers! There’s no room for discussion with people like that. Their rants are ridiculous and never on topic. Thanks for your comment.

                  1. LynnWood Farms says:

                    If you call ;refusing to accept your tenuos platform as anything else but lies and hysterical tales, bashing then go right ahead.

                    Still waiting on that proof other then hearsay that the carriage horses are abused. Please cite or link something substantiating your claims.

                    1. Debbie says:

                      like I said, ridiculous rants. You/ve been blogging on this post and others since the article posted. Even saw your name come up on another article in June of 2011.Do you do anything other than sit at a computer and verbally attack anyone that speaks out against the Carriange Horse Industy? Hope your “Farm” doesn’t have any animals, they surely arent’t being cared for because you haven’t stopped typing these nasty, single minded accusations of people not providing you with proof. You appoint yourself the all knowing official of what is and isn’t wrong with the horse industry. You’re just a bully with nothing better to do. I am learning a lot though. You New York City Carriange Horse people are rude and malicious. I can’t wait for the day they do away with this cruel business!

                    2. LynnWood Farms says:

                      How is asking for proof rude or bullying ? I fail to see how asking for someone who is claiming abuse provide some amount of legitimate proof other then because “I feel” is at all bullying. Quite honestly resorting to acting at all like the victim rather then just provide something to back up your claims of neglect and abuse is typical of those clambering for the demise of the industry.

                      If we want to compare apples to oranges you and your ilk have been blogging posting etc the same duration so if your claims about me are true would they not be also a fair representation of you as well ?

                      Now if we are going to point out personal attacks I do believe you just implied that my animals are not taken care of. Do I need to provide you with proof of their excellent care …unlike you I can back up my claims ! By the way Debbie I’ve said it several times I’m not a “NYC carriage people” simply and equine industry professional that is unwilling to sit back and watch people with no horse experience rattle on about things not based on an ounce of fact or truth.

  7. walknyc says:

    CBS/Examiner, the “story” that you miss is that people want to see an outright ban of this archaic industry. Now. No more bogus legislation and nonsense about horsey “vacations.” They need turnout and they do NOT need to be working in the midst of one of the most traffic-clogged cities in the world.

    Also, from a news standpoint, you should correct the giant error: ONE horse–Charlie–died last fall; the horse who fell or collapsed on Dec. 4 did not die in that incident (although he has since “disappeared” from the city’s list of working carriage horses, meaning industry dumped him).

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Well <I'm breaking my own rule bothering to reply to you walknyc– BUT here goes. You are claiming that the horse who had a misstep and fell on DEc. 4 has "disappeared" from the city's list of working horses so he has been "dumped." How dare you make that assumption.

      I guess you don't realize that all over the country every year, horses change hands at private sale because they are found not to be BEST suited for what a particular owner needs them for. There is nothing wrong with selling or trading a horse that does not "work out" in a particular job to someone else who wants the forse for another job.

      For examble, many TB race horses who are unsuccessful at the track do not go to auction or kill buyers. Instead, they are sold to trainers or individual owners who have them retrained as English pleasure show horses, hunter/jumpers or even pleasure riding horses. Do you consider these horses "dumped"?

      You an other anti-carriage horse extremists are constantly complaining that you believe the carriage horses are "unhappy." BUT then you want to complain when a horse leaves its job as a carriage horse, for one reason or another, and you want to say it has been "dumped."

      What could be possible reasons for a carriage horse to be "dropped from the rolls"? Well, maybe the horse as "aged out" and is now too old to legally work in NYC. I understand there are age limits that force a horse to be retired regardless of his soundness and ability to continue working.

      Maybe the horse has shown its owner that it is not well suited to work as a city carriage horse. It takes a very intellegent, adaptable, and trusting horse to work successfully as an urban carriage horse. some horses really would make better pleasure driving horses or hobby farm horses. A caring owner dios what is best for any particular horse he or she owns.

      I had two Percherons. One showed by her nervous attitude that she did not like to have to share the road with motor vehicles. She was not happy to be around them. She did, however, love to work in the fields and drive on farm roads and state forest trails where thee were not any motor vehicles. The other mare loves to get out and see new things. She doesn't mind motor vehicles at all, even when rude drivers honk their horns or pass closer than the 3 foot distance the law stipulates.

      As a caring owner, I never forced Lou to do the job she did not like- traveling on the road with *gasp* horse-eating cars. Dixie on the other hand loves to hit the road. She loves excitement and new places and people. Cars, trucks and even 18-wheelers don't bother her one bit. She is not a fan of motorcycles, but then neither am I. They are too loud and make our ears hurt.

      I do talk about Lou in the past tense because, she died, suddenly and unexpectedly Dec. 23. She had had her breakfast at 6 am (the first of 3 meals my horses get each day). She was standing quietly in her turnout at 8 am. When I looked out my kitchen window at 8:30 she was down on the ground and was gone. There was no sign of any struggle to regain her footing. She really did just colapse– in a pasture while doing ABSOLUTELY nothing..My vet saw no need for a necropsy.Lou was 22, appeared to be in good health,was of the proper weight (about 1,800 lbs) had never had any health problems the four years she was here. She was up-to-date on all vaccinations, etc.

      But regarding your dogging of the NYC carriage horse owners, you need to just back off. There are many, many reasons why a horse may leave active service as a carriage horse and none of them are sinister or suspect. I am sure you would agree, since you say you care about the horses so much, that any horse who indicates it is not happy working in the city, or who has developed a health condition that would make working uncomfortable like arthritis, navicular disease, bowed tendon, stifle problems, unresolved intermittant lameness etc. is best retired form service.

      Maybe after all the negative publicity you all generated about the horse falling, his owner decided he was a bit klutzy and didn't want to risk another fall, so he was retired to a farm, or sold to someone who wanted a weekend pleasure driving horse or even to a small special events livery where he would not be required to work as often and in city conditions.

      How dare you imply that this horse was "DUMPED." And actually, since you and others are so against the horse-drawn carriages and the horses being in the city, I would think you would be happy when one "disappears" from the rolls.

      Seriously, you and the other extremists NEED to quit implying that there is something "wrong" or "bad" or "not right" every time a NYC carriage horse slips and falls or every time one goes off the rolls.

      And I WILL remind you and the rest, these horses are PRIVATELY owned animals. It really is none of your business when or why they are transferred off the rolls or whether they are sold or not. You all come off as just a bunch of nosey busybodies. Really, do you track down every dog that is sold or put up for adoption? Do you follow all the changes of ownership at the race tracks near NYC or in NY state? I bet not.

      You all appear to be just a bunch of mean-spirited, frustrated people who have decided to target the hard-working independent business people who own and operate horse-drawn carriages in NYC. I wonder if are secretly jealous of the freedom they enjoy as independent small business owners or employees of such. They are working at jobs they like.

      There are MILLIONS of people living in NYC. At best you all have managed to garner a few thousand signatures on your petitions– some of which have been gained through deliberate misrepresentation or lies about the carriage horses and their living conditions.

      If you don't like the carriages, don't ride in them. But don't try to force your point of view on everyone else. Quit trying to take jobs away from working horses and their owners and drivers. Go find something else to do like tutor children who are behind in school, feed the hungry, help the homeless find a place to live. Raise funds to spay and neuter pets whose owners can't come up the money. Go help someone or some animals who NEED help.

      The NYC carriage horses, and carriage horses everywhere have homes, feed and appropriate care. They DO NOT need you help in any way. You need to quit trying to take jobs away from people and horses, and you need to mind your own business. We will continue to tend to our horses.

    2. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Here you go again trying to make something look “sinister.” IF, and I repeat IF, the horse that lost its footing and fell on Dec. 4 is no longer on the the city’s list of working carriage horses, it certainly DOES NOT mean the “industry dumped him.” with all the negative connotations that you tied by using he word “dumped.”

      He could have “aged out” of the business as I understand the are legal age limits that require a horse to retire from active status once it reaches a certain age.

      His owner could have decided he is not well-suited to continue working in the city, and could have taken him for retirement to the country, sold him at private sale to another carriage livery elsewhere, or sold him at private sale to someone who wanted a pleasure driving or riding horse.

      MOST NYC carriage horses, who leave the active rolls, are retired at their owner’s expense, donated to various retirement farms, or sold at private sale to other liveries outside of NYC, or to private owners seeking well-trained, dependable riding or driving horses.

      A very few may be sold at auction, but hese are quickly bought up by private individuals or others seeking to profit from owning a former NYC carriage horse. Remember, auctions exist to bring willing buyers and sellers togehther– they do not exist for the purpose of “sending horses to slaughter” as many anti-carriage horse extremists want us all to believe.

      An auction is just a different sales venue from a sale at “private treaty” concluded between two parties at a private farm or barn.

      Of the six horses currently here for life– three passed through the auction process before coming here. I bought one directly at an auction house myself. The other two were bought by people at an auction, and donated to this farm. The three others were all bought and then donated or donated directly to this farm as an alternative to being sent through an auction. Of the six horses here, all except one have spent at least part of their lives or their entire lives as driving horses.

      So you see, being sent to auction is NOT the same as being sold or given directly to a kill buyer to fill a slaughter contract as was done routinely with TBs by some race horse owners and trainers.

  8. Hell's Kitchen Resident says:

    Hey Carriage horse “Lover” – are you the only (paid?) voice here?? SO many of your comments speak volumes of cover-up! WHY DON’T YOU PAY SALES TAX?

    1. Carriage business is outdated- says:

      Hells Kitchen Resident> You bring up a very important point. Wonder why they can’t respond? They are usually so free & willing to spew their propaganda on EVERY subject except this one. OH, and alcohol+ carriage drivers. More to come on the latter.

      1. LynnWood Farms says:

        @ Thee above. While I commend your attempt to under score the truths and FACTS spoken by those in support of the carriage horse Industry every single one of us who have posted have indicated our professions in one post or another. It is most bemusing that when backed into a corner “cover up” is once again your typical MO vs simply provide some FACTUAL proof of abuse.

        Yet again I ask please provide PROOF the horses are abused..also please leave out the inane “look into his eyes “, “sad soul” theatrics. Go with cited proof maybe a report from an accredited equine veterinarian or two stating the horses are abused ??

      2. Carriage Horse Lover says:

        Why am I not surprised that now you want to bring up alcohol and carriage drivers. When all else fails . . . start calling your opponents a bunch of drunks– way to go CBIO.

        Don’t forget to look up stats about motorists and alcohol while you are at it.

        How many human traffic fatalities in NYC are alcihol-related in just a single year? Plenty, I bet.

        I know how many human or equine fatalities have been linked to carriage drivers driving under the influence of alcohol in the past 30 years (or more) ZERO, ZIP, NONE.

        GAME OVER- nice try CBIO.

    2. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      DUH– Hell’s Kitchen Resident– Why don’t you bother to read the whole thread? I don’t pay sales tax because my town does not collect sales tax on “professional services.” I DO NOT LIVE OR WORK IN NYC (thank the LORD). I live and work in Louisiana. Where I live, providing horse-drawn carriage rides is considered a “professional service.”: I have mentioned all of this is previous posts.

      I run a small horse retirement or sanctuary farm for six horses.They have homes here for life. All of them are semi-retired horses who are ridden or driven to provide expercise for them and for me. Feeding, grooming, harnessing, hitching and driving horses is “no walk in the park.” It is hard work,and good exercise. I run a livery and carriage tour service (by appointment) to help raise the money that helps pay for the needs of the horses here. I LOVE to work with my horses. Carriage driving is a childhood dream come true for me.

      I am not paid at all by the NYC carriage horse owners, the Teamsters or anyone else to defend the honorable and traditional trade of carriage driving for hire. I defend the NYC carriage horses because if it had not been for my carriage ride through Central Park on a Christmastime visit to a now deceased uncle, I might never have discovered the wonder of horse-drawn carriages. The were not exactly “a dime a dozen” even back in the 1950s.

      I post here to defend the NYC carriage horse owners out of a debt of gratitude I owe for having been introduced to the carriage world 55 years ago last December. As fellow horsemen and women, they deserve my support because they are being unfairly attacked, lied about, and defamed by people who are anti-carriage horse fanatics with their own agendas — like you.

      I am a Southerner. Southerners, in general, hate unfairness and hate seeing people being attacked while minding their own business. We are also very loyal, and we appreciate the role of carriage and working horses because the South is still a mainly agricultural region. I know that many of the people who are against the NYC carriage hroses also want to attack me and other carriage horse woenrs in the South and elsewhere. I know that you all are trying to get carriage driving banned EVERYWHERE, not just in NYC.

      Your own websites admit that many of you want to ban all horse-drawn carriages because apparently you are misinformed and think that driving is cruel to horses. I am not going to sit silenty by and wait for you to get around to making trouble for us Southerners. I will combat your LIES, and MISINFORMATION with TRUTH and FACTS no matter whom you are attacking at the time.

      1. Carriage business is outdated- says:

        Just because you attack and insult shows your emotions are too high. Time to cool off. The facts are carriage horse industry is closing down. Good luck to you in Louisiana. New York won’t remember you. Time to shut this puppy down.

  9. michele says:

    carraige horses DO NOT BELONG IN NYC!

  10. Tierra Chapman says:

    Why don’t you all have human rickshaws and drag fat tourist asses around in all sorts of weather. rain, heat, or cold? The tips will be awesome, right??? Custom will reconcile people to ANY atrocity and this carriage horse industry is outdated, atrocious, and not at all romantic. Come into the 21st century NYC! This is cruel and pathetic!

  11. Carriage Horse Lover says:

    For the TRUTH and FACTS about the NYC carriage horses and their owner/drivers as well as video tour of their stable, please see


  12. Carriage Horse Lover says:

    Open appeal to anyone who really WANTS to learn how the NYC carriage horses live and are treated. If you want facts and real unstaged video, go to


    You will find lots of truthful and factual information about working and carriage horses on these links. I am a hardworking carriage horse owner.I also manage a small horse retirement farm, which is partially funded by doing special event livery and carriage tours of my town. I am very proud of the coaching traadition. I am very proud to have learned to drive a horse. I am very proud of having been able with the help of like-minded friends to have given many horses a safe lifetime home as they aged. I totally resent the false accusations being made here against carriage horse and livery owners and drivers, because I can’t stand people who LIE.

    To my fellow carriage drivers and carriage horse owners and others who already know the TRUTH about carriage horses and the NYC carriage horses in particular—-

    I urge you to quit “feeding” the anti-carriage horse trolls here. Instead, if you feel you must post a rebuttal, just cut and past the two above links and post them as your responses. Just those links, nothing else. Maybe the trolls will choke on them becuse they are links to the truth.

    We know we are dealing with people who refuse to see the truth, and refuse to abandon ther lies and misinformation. It is time for us to quit allowing them to ABUSE us. We cannot engage in intelligent discussion with them. They cannot be reasoned with because, when it comes to carriage horses, they don’t have any reason or reasons for their rabid hatred of us and our occupation.

    I would like to thank CBS for not knuckling under to the well -funded and well-orgainzed campaign against horse-drawn carriages mounted by the various anti-carriage organizations in NYC and elsewhere. I urge you to investigate them and their sources of funding as well as who is really backing them, and why. I promise it WILL make a good story.

    Good and safe driving to you all– and goodnight.

  13. Hell's Kitchen Resident says:

    It is time to shut this down. These horses suffer. Go see for yourself. They are overworked. And must ask: WHY don’t they have to pay sales tax to NYC and NY Sate when they tell tourist the rides are “plus tax” and no one does anything about it!?

  14. PeaceBird says:

    Sign the petition telling Mayor Bloomberg to stop this carriage horse abuse once and for all!!

  15. Carriage Horse Lover says:

    For Truth and accurate information about the NYC carriage horses go to

  16. Rina Deych, RN says:

    This cruel, outdated industry MUST be banned, period.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      I am a carriage horse owner and retirement farm manager in Louisiana. I know the truth about carriage horses. You can learn the truth for yourself, too. For Truth and accurate information about the NYC carriage horses go to

  17. Anna Fiona says:

    What do you expect, it is CBS-it is a station built on mindless blurb. I am a New Yorker and I am ashamed that we still carry on the practice of horse drawn carriages-IT IS UNSAFE, UNSANITARY, AT TIMES CRUEL AND SIMPLY UNNECESSARY. I live here, see the accidents (human and horse),the deaths, seen how sick the horses are. How anyone can find it “entertaining” is beyond me. There is not enough room for the vehicles, let alone horse drawn carriages. Like all things it time has come to fade away.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      You can learn the truth for yourself, too. For Truth and accurate information about the NYC carriage horses go to

      1. Carriage business is outdated- says:

        Carriage Horse Lover, i thought you would like to know that the video you keep posting for opponents to view, comes up blank as a blank screen?!! Just thought you’d like for it to be accurate for your future postings.

        1. Deb says:

          The video works fine for me.

        2. Carriage Horse Lover says:

          Works fine for me, too. You have to give the video time to load. And there are lots more videos to the right you can click on and watch.

        3. Louise Gordon says:

          The video worked for me as well. Thank you for providing it. Certainly has made me question what I previously assumed was fact.

          Can I ask who is the person responsible for those videos and what is his position in the industry ?

  18. Deborah says:

    If Bloomberg wants carriages drawn by something, then let him be the one carrying people around.

  19. carol says:

    the poor horse in the picture looks so worn tired. They should be in green pastures, not on NY streets & traffic and NOT in a Slaughter house!

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