The Following is a transcript of Susan Williams’ meeting with a phony “hit-man” as provided by the Nassau County DA’s office.
PEOPLE V SUSAN WILLIAMS
Date: March 3, 2010
SW = Susan Williams
UC = Undercover Detective
SW: It’s not a good sight huh?
UC: Uh huh huh.
UC: I ah, I was actually in the other a…
SW: Oh, the other one?
UC: …parking lot. And then I’m like yea, ’cause I thought you said like the first one. But then I’m like ah, let me take a ride so I was in that one.
SW: Yeah, if you wanna go somewhere else, I’m fine I’ll follow you. I don’t know. There’s no one here.
UC: No, naw, this, this is good. This, I, I’m not too familiar so like I went in there and I sat there and like, then I go let me see ’cause ya know, whatever, but no big deal.
SW: How long you know Joey? Long time?
SW: You know Joey a long time?
UC: Uh, pretty long, pretty long. What about you?
SW: Um, three years.
UC: Three years.
SW: Maybe three years.
UC: Wow, okay.
SW: And uh he’s actually a really good buddy of a very, very good friend of mine. Who I trust very much.
UC: Right, right, right.
SW: You know, so that’s how I met Joey. But uh you know. Anyway I’m going back and forth and I’m gonna tell you why.
UC: Yeah, go ahead.
SW: I just…if, if he’s hurt, my kids are gonna go crazy, they’re gonna feel bad for ’em. He’s not going anywhere and nothing really happens. On the other end, I wanna know, how it’s, how it’s done. Do you know what I’m saying? Because if it’s an accident, that’s great.
UC: Well you know what…
SW: If it’s not…
SW: …then they’ll come after me most likely.
UC: You know what, I was thinking about that.
SW: And I, and I have to worry about my four children, the repercussions and you know. And I could handle a little bit ya know that but(sigh) ya know what I’m saying. I don’t know your end and I need to know a little bit…
SW: …before I make any decision ya know…
UC: Ya, you gave me a good idea the last time. With the accident thing…
UC: Um, that’s probably…
SW: That’s what Joey told me, he told me a couple of things, he’s funny. He sits down and tells me about the gasoline tank and this and that and putting a hole in it and (laughs) and I’m like you know what…
UC: No, no good.
SW: …you gotta, you gotta be good to be able to do all that. I don’t..
UC: Yea, no…
SW: …even know, ya know.
UC: …what, what, um I ah, ee, yu, I thought that was good with the car, the accident ah, it’s boring and that’s what we want.
UC: We don’t want no detective novel, uh A&E…um, I think…the best…
SW: I’m going crazy thinking like I’ve got to get rid of my hard drive, I’ve got to get rid of my laptop. You know…
UC: No, no, the best route…
SW: …if I do all that.
UC: …yeah, you know what, I though you had a great idea the last time. I can do a ah… like a car accident.
UC: But you gotta tell me…
SW: What’s the guarantee?
UC: …well, here’s the thing, you gotta tell me about him and about his habits.
SW: He drinks a lot.
UC: He does, he goes to bars?
SW: Um, no he drinks at home. Like he has a fully stocked refrigerator at work and I know it’s fully stocked at his house. ‘Cause believe it or not one of the children that live in the home is friendly with my son and my husband doesn’t even know. They met out once. I know. So she drinks a lot. The refrigerator is stocked. So this woman ya know lets him do whatever and I don’t know how this happened, but anyway he runs the whole house there now. So he does drink a lot. I mean, he did, he has a DWI. He got picked up right down the block from my house. So he’s not even supposed to be driving right now. He’s has a conditional license, but he does. He does everything he’s not supposed to do. He’s, he’s very manipulative you know, um…
UC: Does he, but does he, think he ever goes to bars or somewhere…
SW: Yeah sure he does.
UC: …where he could be….
SW: He’s a big cigar smoker. He golf’s…
SW: …he plays platform tennis now. He, he’s already done two vacations. He’s gone away. Yeah, I don’t know what bars he goes to, ya know.
SW: I know its all about his lifestyle and I don’t, I don’t really know. ‘Cause to be honest I was working, so much.
UC: Alright, alright. ‘Cause a ah car accident, a car accident’s good. I mean there’s no…
SW: No, I know, I know.
UC: …there’s no mystery, there no…
UC: …you know illegal weapons…
UC: …um its just, ya know…I, I, actually I was thinking I like that idea.
SW: Either way he comes back and blames me and tells all my children your mother did it, your mother did it. When he got picked up for the DWI, he blamed me.
UC: He blamed you.
SW: He still talks about it, yeah.
UC: Well…you didn’t right…
SW: Obviously I had Joey follow him, okay whatever.
UC: Yeah, alright but you didn’t ah, you didn’t, you didn’t force him to drink.
SW: He blew it, he blew a two (2) point whatever it was. You know what, he drinks from like12 o’clock on, golfs all day drinks some more. He went poker playing at his brother’s house. His brother, his brother is bad. His brother drinks just as much. He was stalking me. I had an order of protection against his brother.
SW: This is a nightmare.
UC: Oh my God.
SW: I’m telling you, I wouldn’t even stoop, if…
SW: He…this is a nightmare. And, this is probably crazy that I’m doing this but, could, I couldn’t even sleep last night.
SW: I’m like…
UC: Well, why not, let me…
SW: …what’s the repercussions you know.
UC: …yeah, well listen, Susan listen.
SW: ‘Cause I don’t know you and to be honest I worry, ya know.
UC: Yeah, I don’t blame ya.
SW: You guys have got something.
UC: You should worry and I should wor…
SW: (inaudible) someone’s got a radio, ah…
UC Ah well, listen….
SW: You’re, you’re taping me (laughs)…I’m fucked if that’s the case.
UC: Well maybe you’re taping me, you could be a cop, right?
SW: I could, my father’s a cop.
UC: You kind of look like a cop.
SW: Yeah, I wanted to be a cop. My father was a cop…
UC: So did I, everybody does right.
SW: My brother’s an aviation policeman.
UC: Really, uh hum.
SW: One’s retired and one ah, is still a policeman. But they’ll tell you my husband is trash.
SW: My father’s retired, narcotics, missing, missing persons, persons a lot of ya know. It’s like in ya, ya know. But, but they know a lot of crooked people, they know a lot of ya know, trash.
UC: I guess it’s the business.
UC: I mean look what you’re dealing with.
SW: …they’ve done things.
SW: My father’s done things, forget it, ya know.
UC: Yeah um.
SW: But anyway.
UC: Well listen, I listen it…
SW: I would disgrace my family if this ever came out. (laughing)
UC: Let me, let me be clear then. Let me be clear…
SW: I’m not worried about that.
UC: I mean I’ve only invested what, with ya, a couple times…
UC: …so it’s no big deal to me, I don’t care either way. You could, Susan, you wanna walk away from me, we never met, have a good life, see you later, that’s fine. I don’t give a rat’s ass.
SW: No, I don’t. I don’t. I would love…
SW: I would love…
SW: …to just do this…
SW: …and get it done.
UC: Alright, no I…
SW: I wanna make sure…
SW: … at the way it’s done.
UC: I just want you to know though, I’m not ya know….
SW: No, I understand.
UC: …like again, I got, not that I got nothing better to do but, ya know it’s nice talking with ya. Believe me it’s been pleasurable. I’m not ya know, but if you wanted to forget about it, like…
SW: I think your great too, but it hasn’t been pleasurable for me. I haven’t been sleeping.
SW: I’m like…
UC: Yeah, well.
SW: What am I doing, am I crazy.
UC: Yeah, that’s what I’m sayin’.
SW: Ya know…
UC: If you wanna, listen, I don’t want, if you want to walk away right now, goodbye, like I said we’ll shake hands…
SW: Right, right.
UC: We never met.
UC: Never happened, it’s up, ya know, I, I, I’m fine with that.
SW: I understand, I understand.
UC: That’s good, well I wanna to be clear.
SW: Yeah I know, I know. I just wanna…ya know if it’s an accident I’d love it.
UC An accident, okay, that well, you know what, I’ll, okay, an accidents good ah, ’cause I don’t deal with…to tell you the truth I have no illegal guns, I’m not into that alright, I’m…
UC: Ya know if, ya know if I got stopped by a cop I’m legit.
UC: I got nothin’, I don’t do drugs.
SW: Right, okay.
UC: Alright, I’m not into drugs. Ya know, I, I work out. I’m not into guns and crazy shit like that so, ya know ah, ya know, an accident is an accident, I mean ya know, a car is legal, I guess right? (laughs)
SW: Right, right.
UC: But um, you know with a car, it’s like, it would be like, I don’t know what I can guarantee, that’s the only thing. I mean, ya know, what do you want done?
SW: I want him more than hurt. ‘Cause if he gets hurt then it’s not enough.
UC: Alright, alright, I understand, you want him dead?
SW: Yeah, God, I don’t want to say it. You said it. (laughs)
UC: Do you want him dead?
SW: I smeared; I smeared this too, sorry…
UC: Alright, okay…
SW: Just now, but ah…
UC: Alright, well I gotta know, there’s a big difference.
SW: Yeah, I know, you’re right. Yes, that’s what I want.
UC: Alright, okay. You want him dead, dead, gone and again I know I said this a thousand times, ’cause what happens is um, you know like a relative like ah… like recently my aunt died alright, and mean we were close but it was my aunt so when I heard she died, I was like a little upset. But…it doesn’t hit you until you’re…
SW: No, I know.
UC: …at the funeral and then you freak out. So I don’t want, you know what I mean, like you may know…
SW: Let me tell ya, let me tell you what my husband did to me. My husband gave me HPV and it turned into cervical cancer and they ripped everything out of me, my uterus, my cervix, thirty nine lymph nodes. I can’t have children.
UC: How did he give you cancer though?
SW: ‘Cause he was screwing around and he got HPV and it was sitting in me for years…
UC: That can turn into cancer?
SW: HPV turns into cancer if you don’t get it taken care of.
UC: Oh my God.
SW: It was sitting in me for three years okay, and you know what I have four children and they’re lovely, believe me. But ya know what, I might have met somebody and wanted to have a child, want to have a child.
UC: And now you can’t.
SW: And now I can’t.
UC: It’s forever.
SW: And you know what, this is, this is the shit that is constantly in the courtroom, constantly. And it’s like…
UC: Oh my God.
SW: It’s a nightmare, he’s scum.
SW: He’s scum. Alright, and you know what, so no I’m not gonna feel bad.
SW: You know why, you know why I can’t sleep ’cause I want to make sure that when the cops come to my house, I know that the proper ya know, expression and what not to say and what to say when they come to me. That’s what I think about. I’m a very big like, what are the reper, repercussions, what are the ya know, domino effects to this.
SW: I have four children should I be ya know, how, how do I handle it and that, and that’s my job and I understand that .
SW: That’s my job.
SW: But, that’s, that’s how I think, because, what are they gonna do, ya know, it’s an accident.
UC: Yes, it’s an accident.
SW: I’m better off that way.
UC: Ah, no, I, ya know what, it’s funny ’cause I was thinking about it, of course I need a game plan.
UC: And ah, I thought, you ever did this before?
UC: Oh, ’cause (laughs).
SW: I know I should’ve been a policeman.
UC: You came up…
SW: Ah yes, I’m tellin’ you, I, I was, I was going to be a policewoman.
UC: ‘Cause you had me worrying like, you came up with good ideas, like meet here, the accident, I mean, I’m thinking she’s either a cop or she did this before. (laughing)
SW: No, I have a life insurance, there’s a life insurance on him ya know, just like I have one on me, and I pay it every month and I’m like, if he’s hurt, the, the kids are going to pity him and feel bad for him forever and still not have any finances ’cause he’s a schmuck.
SW: Ya know, and I’m like this is just going on forever and he’s gonna still hire more attorneys to, ’cause he’s, he’s just so angry. He wants to put me in the ground, ’cause I, I should have stayed with him I guess. But ah either way, it’s not, ya know, I know it’s tough in the end. Ya could, ya know everyone getting over the whole situation.
UC: Well again, that’s why…
SW: But you do get over it.
UC: …well of course you do.
SW: And they’re not in his life anyway. He’s not in their life.
UC: Right, right.
SW: He doesn’t see them.
SW: Ya know, and ah, I’m trying to start over in every way and… I don’t know.
UC: Right, again I just ’cause what happens is ya know, just from normal life someone dies…they’re gone.
SW: I know, I know.
UC: It’s forever…but…
SW: There’s a little grieve (inaudible).
UC: …for a little while, like…it doesn’t really hit you and then when they’re putting the box in the ground…
SW: I’m not going, I’m (inaudible).
UC: I’m just saying in normal…
SW: Should I go? I guess I have to go ’cause I gotta show my remorse for the kids and bring the kids and make sure they go through grieving process ’cause it’s important.
SW: My father use to own a funeral home, he was a…
SW: …funeral director. So I know the whole grieving process is important, but to be honest like, I’m the executrix to my parents…
UC: But you may flip out…
SW: …estate because I don’t…
UC: …that’s what I’m saying.
SW: …have, no I don’t have any emotions. I mean I do, but I don’t.
SW: I don’t save anything.
SW: I’m not a collector of anything, everything I throw away, I’m not…
SW: …I not, I know. I know…
UC: Alright, you’re scaring me. (laughing)
SW: I know, I was becoming a police officer, all I had left was my oral psychological and I walked out…
SW: …in the morning and got, my, my arm went through a glass window and I never did it. As I was leaving the house.
SW: So, I would have been a police woman, so just ya know.
UC: Alright that’s why I said Susan, I know all this shit comes in your head.
SW: I know.
UC: That’s why I said again…
SW: And I do think about it.
UC: You want to walk away…
UC: Fine, goodbye ya know, we never met.
UC: We’ll never see each other again, and that’s, I’m fine with that. No problem. I haven’t, I haven’t lost anything.
SW: I know. . .
UC: Nothing. Alright, um…so ya, you want him gone, not walking the earth anymore. Okay, um…whatta you got?
SW: I just have a picture.
UC: Let me see here.
SW: Is that good enough? That’s the latest one I could come up with. That was…
UC: Yeah. I mean that’s him right?
SW: That’s him at my daughter’s sweet 16 and she’s 19 now. That’s the, that’s the only thing I got, because the divorce started almost three years ago.
UC: Okay, but he looks like that.
SW: Yeah, yeah. Now…
UC: What’s on the back here?
SW: Alright, I just put his birthday just so you can see how old he is. And this I just, ya know, I just did in my car now sorry, lives with girlfriend her name is Laura Nadel Salerno, where he lives is one nineteen Dowling Avenue. Now…
SW: I always thought it was Dowling…
UC: One nineteen…
SW: I think it’s…
UC: …or nineteen?
SW: …nineteen, it’s nineteen. Now I tried to get on the computer this morning and my computer isn’t working, broken, I don’t know why. Anyway, I was in Sea Cliff just recently ’cause I had to drop off my son to a sweet sixteen…
UC: Yeah, okay.
SW: …and there’s a Downing Avenue.
UC: So it could be Downing?
SW: I’m not going to be able to get in touch with you, but …
UC: Right, no don’t.
SW: If you just, I know for a fact that if you Google Laura Nadel Salerno it comes up.
UC: Right, okay.
SW: Alright. Anyway, this is his ah, business address, Williams Fence. And this is what he drives, the BMW truck.
UC: Beautiful. It’s a truck?
SW: It’s silver.
UC: What, like an SUV?
SW: It’s like an X, X3, you know there’s an X5, it’s big and that’s…
UC; No, but it’s not a car? It’s like an SUV like that?
SW: Yeah, small.
UC: A small SUV.
SW: The BMW truck, it’s a X3 it’s small.
UC: Alright, you don’t have a license plate right?
SW: I don’t.
SW: I don’t even go near him.
SW: I don’t, I don’t text him, we don’t talk.
SW: I block him.
UC: BMW, X3.
SW: It’s silver with black interior.
UC: Alright, okay.
SW: But ya know, and then I just need…
UC: Let me ask you this though…
UC: He’s not ah, a retired cop or nothin’ is he?
SW: No, he’s not even educated.
UC: Does he have a gun?
UC: That you know of, you’re sure?
SW: No, he doesn’t.
UC: Alright, good, okay.
SW: He doesn’t. His brother has a gun and uh was using it ’cause he’s just an idiot and he just thought he needed it to take the payroll from the bank to back and forth at the time.
UC: Sixty three, so he’s forty…
UC: Forty seven.
SW: Turning forty seven this year, right?
UC: Okay. I guess you cut yourself out of that picture?
SW: Not a problem.
UC: Right, right, right. Okay um, it’s not gonna be done obviously today or tomorrow…
SW: No, I know.
UC: ..or ya know, I mean it’s not gonna be done for, ya know a while um.
SW: Ya know tell me, this is the problem too. Like, the balance of whatever I have to give you, when does it have to be given to you?
UC: Lis, listen, the more time that goes by, the better. I know, I know you’re not leaving the country.
SW: Yeah, ’cause I get, I know they’re gonna, they’re meet me at my door when this happens.
SW: ‘Cause I know I would be.
UC: Yeah possibly, but like I said, it’s not, I don’t ya know, believe me I don’t…
SW: You take your time.
UC: Yeah, and again it’s nothing illegal. I don’t have, I mean it’s nothing illegal ya know, as for as how I’m gonna, no weaponry let’s say like…
UC: …guns. I don’t deal with guns and…
SW: Right, right.
UC: …shit like that. And I don’t want to turn it into a drama, a mystery, like a murder…you know what I mean?
SW: No, I want it as simple as possible, ya know, if I could do it myself, I would. (laughs) Ya know, but…
UC: Ah, shitty day man.
SW: Yeah, it’s crappy. Alright, so I should give you some money right?
SW: And then um…
UC: Um, just if we meet again, let’s not ever discuss where, it’ll be here. How’s that?
SW: Yeah, that’s good.
UC: So we don’t ever have to talk about location again.
UC: Got it?
UC: This is the spot. If for some reason, um…usually when I call you, I’ll do, how about I’ll do like three in a row? Like three hang ups…
SW: Yeah, I saw you did that.
UC: Yeah, I’ll do three.
SW: Yeah, I’m sorry I kept missing them.
UC: That’s alright, I’ll do three.
SW: I’m bad, I always have my phone on silent.
UC: That’s alright. I’ll do three, that’ll be me. And it’ll will never be never discussed where again. It will be here. Um and just for the future so we know, is this time good? Like normally, early, two?
SW: Anytime, like before three ’cause the kids get home from school so …
UC: Before three, now in case…
SW: …and I like, have to go pick them up and stuff.
UC: …Alright, so I just wanna be, in case for some reason, I won’t panic, if we were supposed to meet and your not here, I’ll assume it’s the child issue. I’m not gonna, don’t worry, I’m not gonna…you understand…
SW: Call it off.
UC: Yeah, I’m not gonna…well I’m not gonna, I mean after the fact…I not gonna…
UC: …if you were supposed to meet me and pay me the rest and you didn’t show up, I, I’ll assume whatever, you had a flat tire, a child. You know what I’m talkin’, I’m not gonna, alright?
SW: How do you, how do you give the balance? Like I can’t see ya?
SW: Meet you somewhere?
UC: …you’re gonna have to, you’re…
SW: How do you do that?
UC: …gonna have to, we could do that. It’s gotta be, obviously it’s gotta be cash…
UC: …as long as it’s cash, you wanna leave it somewhere for me, ya know, just…
UC: …I mean obviously.
SW: And wouldn’t you be nervous? Ya know they’ll be following me.
UC Yeah, maybe.
UC: It’s poss, eh, yeah, anything’s possible, sure. I mean…
SW: So (laughs) I think.
UC: I mean it’s possible, ah, yeah, anything is possible.
UC: Who the hell ya know, who knows Susan, I mean…but like I said it’ll be an accident and uh, he’s not gonna be shot, nothing like that. Okay?
SW: Uh huh. Good.
UC: It’s not gonna be like some crazy, you know what I’m saying?
SW: I don’t want to be like a made for TV movie.
UC: No I’m not gonna create, in other words whatever is there, is gonna be there, there’s not be anything added. They’re not gonna be looking for anything. You know I’m not gonna give them CSI and all that shit, whatever.
SW: Right, right, right.
UC: So ah, I just got to figure out how, I gotta ya know, get him at a vul, ya know, get him when he’s vulnerable.
UC: And it’ll be an accident, I mean um…
SW: He does things now and then, like there’s, I have ah a girlfriend of mine in Jersey and I’m no longer friends with her ’cause he went out there and he kept friends with her and pretty much turned the whole thing ag, and I didn’t try to…
SW: …keep friends with her ’cause I, she put him up in her house.
SW: And he pretty much, much manipulated her whatever but, she um has a benefit every year, which might be coming up and it’s in Red Bank, Jersey.
SW: I don’t know, ya know it’s a, a diabetic, children’s diabetic benefit. Something like that he might do. Ya know, and he drinks a lot. But last time, ’cause I know Joey followed ’em and last time he, he was drunk off his ass, but he wasn’t driving. Someone else was driving.
SW: Things like that he might do once in a while, otherwise…
SW: …he’s probably a homebody, ya know. So I don’t know.
UC: Alright, well again…
SW: Plus if he’s with his girlfriend, I don’t wanna see anything happen to the girl.
UC: No,no, no.
SW: She has four children, you know what I mean.
UC: I don’t blame you.
SW: And (inaudible) ya know.
UC: Nothing is going to happen to anyone but him.
UC: That’s it, no one, if he’s with someone…
UC: …no. He, he’s going to have to be alone, alone…
UC: …totally alone.
SW: He does, he does a lot of estimates and the season is starting right now, end of February, March…
SW: …is his season. And he, that’s all he does is drive around and do estimates.
UC: Alright, but it’s not gonna be within the next…
SW: And he golfs a lot.
UC: …few days.
SW: You’ll see.
UC: He golf’s, where?
SW: He, he belongs to the country club too.
SW: His girlfriend, on the north shore. I’m not really sure which one it is.
SW: It might be North Hills, something like that. Um, there’s one right near Downing Avenue…
UC: Ah hum.
SW: …that I just saw and if, I’m hoping its Dowling. Anyway, um but the Garden City Country Club on Stewart Avenue.
SW: He belongs to that.
UC: He belongs to that.
SW: He belongs to that.
UC: Does he golf though like in….
SW: He doesn’t golf as much there…
SW: …but ah, he will.
SW: It will be starting.
UC: I guess spring…yeah okay.
SW: It will be starting now.
SW: Good, here you go.
UC: How much is here?
SW: Five. Isn’t that what you told me? You want to meet me again?
UC: Yeah, yeah, no five is good.
SW: I remembered, you said five, so I just bought five.
UC: Hundreds huh? One, two, three, four, five.
SW: You wanted ones?
UC: Are they real? Are they dry yet? Alright. That’s good, alright, so, just again, like I said I, if you didn’t want to do this…
UC: …I’d be gone. There’d be no problems.
SW: Right. No…
SW: …as long as it’s an accident, I, I almost feel…
SW: …like he’s not…
UC: …and he’s gonna be dead.
UC: He’s not gonna be living anymore.
UC: I just wanna be clear. I don’t want you flipping out on me and…
UC: …and calling me up.
SW: I don’t know you.
UC: Alright, he’s gone be dead. If you didn’t want to do it…
UC: It could be not done and goodbye. See ya
UC: Okay, alright Susan.
SW: Alright, I’ll hear from you then right. Alrighty, take care.