Carriage Association Disputes Claim, Saying Animal Got 'Tangled' After 'Bucking'

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — A horse collapsed while pulling a carriage at the intersection of 60th Street and Broadway on Friday, right in the middle of the evening commute.

According to the ASPCA, the horse was suspended pending a veterinary exam and won’t return to work until the exam is completed.

It was the second horse to collapse in the street in two weeks. Last week a spooked horse crashed outside Central Park. Animal advocates say enough is enough.

“Yet again it’s another illustration of why these horses do not belong on the streets of New York City,” said Carly Knudson of New Yorkers for Clean and Livable Safe Streets.

However, a spokesperson for the Horse and Carriage Association of New York e-mailed CBS 2 early Saturday morning disputing the claim that the horse had collapsed, saying: “This horse did not ‘collapse.’ All horses were suspended from working most of this week due to storm damage in Central Park. The combination of the long period with no work and the cold snap led to this horse exhibiting normal, frisky horse behavior by bucking. A hind leg tangled with the shaft of the carriage, the horse fell, and stayed down calmly while people unhooked him from the carriage. He was walked back to his stable under his own power, without further incident.”

Last month, 15-year-old draft horse “Charlie” dropped dead as he pulled a carriage to work at Central Park. A necropsy revealed he had several ailments, including a fractured tooth and a chronic stomach ulcer.

“Some of these horses have underlying health conditions that are not being noticed or picked up in the mandatory Department of Health fact checks,” Knudson said.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg is a long-time supporter of the horse and carriage trade, what he called a major source of tourism revenue. He’s not wavered from his position to keep the horses on the street.

“Most of them probably wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t have a job,” Bloomberg said recently.

State Sen. Tony Avella, however, has sponsored legislation to ban the horse and buggy rides.

“I challenge the Mayor and Speaker Quinn now to end this practice because shame on them if they continue to allow this to go on,” he said.

Infuriated by the latest incident, Avella asked how many more accidents need to happen before the practice is stopped.

“How long are we going to continue to have the cruelty to the animals, horses dropping dead in Midtown traffic? Plus the danger to pedestrians and motorists?” Avella said.

Should horse-drawn carriages be banned in New York City? Sound off in our comments section below…

Comments (209)
  1. Kiley Mullen says:

    We need to wake up and realize that we aren’t living in the 19th century anymore. Horses are simply not a means for transportation as they once used to be, especially on the busy streets of NYC. There is nothing charming or romantic about the slavery of a beautiful creature being overworked in all extreme conditions, completely out of his element. How many more innocent horses need to collapse or die for this cruelty to end?

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      Thank you, Olivia. Our adversaries constantly compare working horses to enslaved human beings, and it is obscene and outrageous.

    2. pam irvin says:

      the word slave is not reserved for the african-american population, it implies something that supercedes race or even species. if you dont have the right to make decisions in your own life because you are owned by another, that is slavery. be it human slavery or animal slavery, olivia john, of course i can never know the pain that your ancestors felt, and i abhor the notion of slavery, horses feel just as we do.

    3. Paula says:

      Kiley, I agree, these beautiful creatures of that age should not be working, they should be out in a pasture enjoying their senior years, not being forced to work til they drop dead. Seems like they are not really checking these horses health very well!

      1. Trey says:

        A few points. A horse is not “old” until it reaches the twenties. some draft breed life into their 30s. I have seen horses get tangled in their harness and fall down; it really isn’t a big deal. AS far as Charlie is concerned, it seems he came from Amish country (nice green pastures) with undisclosed ailments. As in any industry, some horses are well cared for and others are not; given there are about 250 working in NYC, they need to better regulate the care of these horses. That said, I have seen carriage drivers grooming and feeding their horses. I’ve seen them head back to the stable, running down money because ‘my boy’s tired’ ‘it’s too hot for him”, etc.

    4. Dubloh7 says:

      Olivia, I’m sorry that you’re so sensitive and resentful that you believe the use of the word “slavery” automatically compares the case in point to the treatment of human beings in America in it’s early stages. There is no excuse for the treatment of slaves…whether it be African-American or black (heaven forbid I offend someone by not using their preference of term), Haitian, Taiwaneese, Cambodian, or any of the other nations where human slavery is still alive. Since you are such a sensitive person, I also find it abhorrent that you would call someone an “insensitive white girl.” You have no way of knowing what color or race the writer is, and for you to throw an insult at a stranger for nothing more than the APPROPRIATE use of a word, is extreme. As a person of mixed heritage, I know that the slavery in America, while unspeakably horrible, is not my fault, nor the fault of anyone living today. No one living today deserves my pity OR my blame. Please try to understand that not everyone is out to denigrate another person’s race or cultural history. “Slavery” is a word that describes any man, woman, or creature who is forced to work in sub-par conditions, against their will. Just so you know.

      1. Barbie says:

        Well said!!

    5. Casey says:

      I find it hilarious people still pull the race card so freely. Amazing fact for those who are completely ignorant: people from every creed and color have been slaves at some point in history… I guess that must have been forgotten. People need to get a clue before they make idiotic remarks about someone being and “insensitive white girl”… it shows a major lack of integrity and intelligence.

    6. C Duncan says:

      Oh please! This isn’t about race, it’s about animal cruelty. And stop thinking black people were the only slaves through out history, they weren’t. And stop thinking YOU were ever a slave, YOU weren’t!

    7. kire says:

      You’re no more African than I am,(white male) .I guess I’ll throw an insult while I’m here. I bet you’re one of the ignorant ones that think the rebel flag was a symbol of slavery, but in fact the flag that was flying in this country at the beginning was the AMERICAN flag. Anything after that was pointless, we as a country learned that slavery wasn’t the answer and we overcame it, but people like you won’t let go of something that you didn’t live or really even understand. Also, you have a cracker name !! 🙂

    8. Linann says:

      Are your chains to tight? It’s just a word. Build a bridge and get over yourself.

  2. Zizi says:

    A majority of the pubic has made its feelings known in protests, petitions, letters to the editor and appeals for a common sense end to to the intolerable situation for horses who livie and die on the streets of NYC. The carriage horse industry must go! Our Mayor and his would be successor, Christine Quinn, are both deaf, dumb, blind and totally insensitive to the suffering endured by these poor animals and have continued to support and favor an archaic and abusive industry that has no place in a city like New York.. We can’t wait for them to all be put out to pasture!

  3. susita says:

    How can people be so cruel and uncaring? I am really disgusted with the human race judging from some of the callous remarks here. Horses, like all animals, have feelings. A little compassion folks, please. These poor animals do not belong on the busy New York streets. Just look at their sad faces and look into their eyes. What do you see? You see misery. Please help to stop this blatantly cruel and exploitative industry.

    1. Kate says:

      I’m not a New Yorker, just a visitor from Vermont where there are plenty of horses working logging and on farms. What I saw in NY were horses, who seemed well cared for. They were a good weight, where well shod (means they had appropriate shoes, very expensive part of horse ownership),When I looked in thier eyes I saw only horses who seemed relaxed and friendly. None I saw had that anxious suspicious look that abused horses get.. Many indeed were tired of being petted on the face (a human thing, not a horse thing), but the drivers seemed to be doing their best to keep forlks from doing that it too much. I love horses, and have several, but they are not intellectual giants. If you give them good food, regular exercise, kind trieatment, and the company of other horses, they are mostly pretty happy. Yes it would be lovely if they all had big pastures and huge stalls, but that is not absolutey needed. These horses get exercise, something most pet horses are sadly lacking. I’ll bet these guys love thier stalls. All I see is well cared for working horses. Not perfect, but good. Better than alot of neglected pet horses get. I wish I didn’t have to work either, but it doesn’t ruin my life that I do, and it’s not ruining these horses lives either. Spend you money on the thousands of neglected horses languishing in lousy pastures with bad food, no vet care and all too often, isolation from other horses. Now there is a miserable horse.

      1. Rave-Hon says:

        Thank you for your intelligent answer… I feel the horses are not in misery as you predict…. However, the “Arab” Horses of Baltimore City do seem abused and mistreated more so than the horses of NYC.

  4. Abby says:

    Here’s an idea — let’s keep the horses in Central Park and bypass the traffic problem. And then they can graze in Sheep’s Meadow and be allowed to live like real horses. Build a brand new barn with regulation-sized stalls and where the public can see them. Now you have transparency and you can keep the horses out of the city streets. So carriage industry, what’s going to be your beef with this plan?

    1. Lilliana Vegana says:

      They’ll never agree, all of those cruel people would lose their horses if there was transparency.

  5. Michele Lazarow says:

    “Horse’s would be out of a job??” A horse doesn’t have a job. Their JOB is to be a horse. Bloomberg is a horse’s ass. It is amazing that he has a JOB.

    1. Renee Montillo says:

      Well said, Michele!

    2. pam irvin says:

      well said

    3. danny says:

      Actually what he means is they would be dead if they did not pull a carriage. Time for you to understand how this world works.

  6. Mariah Kelly says:

    Bloomberg – yeah you!! Is this what happens when you’ve been in office too long, you loose good judgement and become neglectful?? Put an end to this abuse NOW! Enough is enough. Are you going to wait until a human dies before you act??? You could care less that many animals have already died. I live in NYC near the 52nd St. stable and see these poor animals every day. They are NOT being well taken care of, just look at them! Please end this abuse NOW!

    Concerned NewYorker

  7. Constance Young says:

    There are electric cars and pedalcycles that can provide the same ride around the city without harming animals. The streets of New York are no place for pasture-loving animals like horses. The recent deaths and accidents prove it.

    1. Rescue says:

      Do you really think all those horses would be put out to pasture if they were “retired”? Most likely they would be auctioned and sent to Canada for slaughter. I agree that the conditions they are kept in are terrible, but we need to think this through and understand the impact of what we are suggesting.

      1. Irked says:

        sent to CANADA? are you stupid? I own and operate a rescue center for horses… IN CANADA! We are just as against slaughter as most of the world you nit wit! without the carrige industry these horses would be left to rot! put to pasture? yea… in pastures of mud with little to no feed where they eak out a miserable neglected existance till their eventual lonely death… I break horses for people and lots of them actually seem to ‘enjoy’ their work. leave them be.

        1. Dubloh7 says:

          Yes, Canada. Did you not know that it’s illegal to slaughter horses for human consumption in the U.S.? It’s allowed for pet food, but not people food. I have no doubt that Canadians love their horses every bit as much as we do down here, but they DO geg trucked across the border to slaughterhouses. Please don’t call people stupid if you, yourself do not have all the facts.

  8. Richard says:

    Say got any plans for getting rid of track rabbits? (RATS) Guess they are too cute and cuddly.

  9. Batya Bauman says:

    Horses do not belong in traffic, hard steamy pavement in summer, cold weather in winter. Nor do they belong in the small, dark, dank “stables” in between times. Give these creatures a break. It is totally unnecessary to exploit animals in this way just for an ephemeral pleasure ride. I beg tourists visiting New York City to please abstain from this shameful activity.

  10. Scott C says:

    Love horses
    And respect the carriage trade
    The horses and drivers have a wonderful relationship, regardless of whether sad events occur from time to time — this can happen everywhere.
    Anyone who knows animals, is aware that in and with humans, animals have significantly longer lifespans than when they’re out in the wild — lots of lions and tigers and bears out there, as well as disease and basic land and elemental hazards
    Mr. Ed made it to 33 y.o. — his owner claimed that he was the smartest horse he had ever known — lovingly interred and memorialized Mr. Ed in his backyard in OK
    But for the NYC carriage trade, many of these horses would be bonding wood trinkets today
    Those who are so hou$e-privileged as to have time and luxury on others’ hard work, service and sacrifice to worry about anecdotal events, need to get out into the field and work for 0.20 // hour, and sadly, learn who a fortunate son is.
    Seems there is a mercenary special interest group motive in much of this alleged animal “rights” malfeasance. Motive and opportunity to 501(c)(3) and gov’t money, and subsequent impostiion of new business model takeover, among other things? Tactical Machiavelli wannabee$ under guise of “caring”…. thought bridge-selling venue was more downtown in the vicinity of the Brooklyn Bridge…
    Give it up…
    Already bank’d most of NYC out — fixing to ruin another venue
    Draft the hou$e-privileged, not the NYC horse carriage trade..

    1. Docnoir says:

      This is pure nonesense. That’s ridiculous to think that people who advocate for animal rights, especially this issue are out to make money off misery-the animals. And that human beings who are the real mercenarys- i.e. drivers-are the good guys-they aren’t. Horses do not belong on city streets filled with cars, trucks, etc. and the insanity of traffic here. We do not need to be exploiting these animals for our own gains-no matter what Bloomberg and Quinn say. There are other more lucrative ways to make a living.

      1. Afan Sitagyl-Manor says:

        Wayne Pacelle and the HSUS are all about making money off animal rights.
        They show heart wrenching commercials of starving dogs and cats, to get people to open their wallets, while 99% of the money collected goes to pay fundraising companies, HSUS employee’s fat pensions, and Wayne’s cushy salary and hedge funds.

    2. Lila says:

      Right, and those who are priviledged to work a horse while sitting on their laurels with little to mostly no supervision to verify adherence to regulations- sufficient enough to secure the horses detriment need not be considered to your equation.
      What kind of degree gave you the chiseled remarks to comment on peoples livelihood? I’m real happy you can live in the security and luxury of your job, living conditions. But everyone has a purpose in this life, and if we all had that same luxury, combined with the same beliefs and attitudes like yours. Attitudes that cannot hold understanding, sensitivity, & compassion for the other animals we share our world with. That have no voice and are at the complete mercy of our actions. Yes, I think I’m happy that some people have the extra time on their hands, and CHOOSE to dedicate it to matters such as these. If it were you, I am doubtful to say you would consider doing the same. You would consider what could directly Benefit you? Tomatoes – Tomato’s And by the way, You Will Lose out in the long run. Truth always prevails, and proof of that is London, Toronto, and Paris among other cities have already banned it. Wh;y don’t you meditate on that for a while. Your so smart, you should have no problem understanding the logic.

      1. Jewel Kaye says:

        Once again, you didn’t do any independent research. Carriages are not banned in these cities. Stop reading the PeTA propaganda and use the search engine. There is a hack line under the Eiffel Tower.

        1. beth says:

          And in Oxford, England, where it still exists, sadly.

          And my comment in this thread was for that pro-carriage industry ramble that was non-sensical, not for any of the respondents.

    3. beth says:

      This is a completely incoherent argument.

      End the carriage trade industry practice yesterday.

  11. Equine Advocates says:

    Further….This bogus argument by Bloomberg that if these horses were not working in NYC that they would be sent to the auction or the “glue factory” is just that: Nonsense! These horses end up there anyway! The problem is that horses are being over-bred by indiscriminate and irresponsible breeders. ..And because there is a demand for horses that pull for use in the carriage horse trade in NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, Atlanta and other big cities that still allow this to go on, I would love to see a record of where all former urban carriage horses really end up after they can no longer work. We believe most of them end up at the meat auctions anyway. Most are not being retired to greener pastures. If they are, I’d like to see proof of it. No, working the streets of large urban centers is just a long route or detour if you will to the slaughterhouse.If the demand for these horses stopped, there would not be as many bred and trained for this purpose by the Amish and others who specialize in supplying horses to this inhumane trade.

    1. Christina Hansen says:

      Carriage horses go on to other careers as pleasure driving, trail riding or therapeutic riding horses. THAT’s what “happens” to them. Nearly all carriage horses are placed for retirement through private networking by their owners; some go to former drivers and their families, some are retired to the owner’s farm, some are retired with long-time admirers who wanted to be the horse’s retirement home when the day came that they stopped working.

      And for those horses whose owners prefer them to go to a draft-horse friendly organization who understands their needs, or for former working horses who cannot find a home, often because of health problems, there are sanctuaries like Blue Star Equiculture (, which is the official retirement home of the Horse and Carriage Association of New York, and has also served as a retirement home for carriage horses from Philadelphia and Connecticut. NYC carriage horses are also placed through the New York Humane Society’s carriage horse retirement program.

      Carriage-type horses are not the result of “indiscriminate and irresponsible” overbreeding. Yes, there is A LOT of irresponsible overbreeding, but by organizations such as the AQHA, and other light breeds of horse, not used for the carriage trade.

      A carriage horse who has found a job in the city is indeed “lucky” as the Mayor argued – he or she came from being at risk for ending up in the slaughter pipeline (he or she was for sale, which is always a risky proposition), to having a home and many connections and many people who love and care for him or her. When the time comes to retire, carriage horses are not sent to the sale, but carefully placed with homes that the carriage owners believe will be good forever homes. Unfortunately, as is the case with trying to rehome any horse, occasionally there will be a “bad apple” of a post-carriage-career home who might try and sell a “gift horse” for a profit at the sale and put the horse at risk.

      1. 212HORSEPOWER says:

        Christina, Bobby certainly didn’t end up with any of the families you stated these horses can end up with. Where’s the accountability? If Blue Star Equiculture has the proof, show the public a list of every single carriage horse out there (or even most of them) that is no longer working and walk the talk. You must have herds of horses by now there. What about all the missing horses that are unaccounted for? How many horses has the NY Humane Society program actually placed? There is nothing “lucky” about being pulled from a kill auction or coming from an Amish farm after hard labor or forced work to find a “job” on the harsh New York City streets pulling carriages around and
        navigating dangerous and unpleasant city traffic. This is not a pleasant or enjoyable experience for the horses, nor is being patted on the face by people or living in a city stable and environment where they cannot even have an ounce of turnout time. What do these horses have that this industry can offer them? The industry makes money off the backs of these horses and the dollar sign is the bottom line. You are correct about the “bad apple” people in your industry, including those that are involved in bribery:

  12. Tim says:

    ban the damn cars. it’s important to make sure the horses are being well taken care of, but there out to be car free zones where they go. it’s the cars not the horse rides that are the problem. moron liberals, picket the suburbanites who’s cars kill more animals and humans everyday with the pollution, and leave this beautiful tradition alone.

  13. Patricia Field says:

    Time to get the horses out of NY City. Too many people and too much traffic and no safety for either. Take the carriages to the county, we do not live in the 1800’s. Get real where is your common sense? Do you have any left?

  14. Equine Advocates says:

    As president of an organization dedicated to the humane treatment and responsible guardianship of equines for more than fifteen years, I repeat our call to ban the urban carriage horse trade in New York City. Horses do not belong in traffic. Period! How many more horses will have to die or are Bloomberg and Quinn waiting for a human fatality before they finally admit that busy urban centers are no place for horses? We are grateful to State Senator Tony Avella and State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal for introducing legislation in the NYS Legislature to ban this practice once and for all.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      We support the working horses in NYC and everywhere else. Working horses have homes, good care and the love and companionship of their owners and drivers.

      Who died and made you Queen and spokesperson for ALL horse owners, horse rescues and refuge farms? We operate a small privately funded not-for-profit retirement farm. We have been in operation since 1999.

      We support wholeheartedly the carriage horses and drivers in NYC and everywhere else. The NYC carriage hroses have an official retirement farm called Blue Star Equiculture.

      We have two semi-retired carriage and farm horses here who are enjoying a “light work load” while serving as ambassadors for older horses everywhere- not just carriage horses.

  15. david11238 says:

    While I’m not for banning the carriages, I am for keeping them confined to Central Park. The car traffic on the streets is too much for cyclists. much less horses. nd I blame the drivers for the maniacal accidents, not carriages.

  16. allyson says:

    certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but i just have to say as a vet tech & horse owner the whole idea & practice of carriage rides in NYC is totally outdated. in fact, NY City in one of the only places you can go for a carriage ride, as most places have come to their senses and realized what a danger it can be to animals and people alike (ie-paris, london tokyo-carriage rides have been outlawed). yes these are proud animals & were bred to work, but try visiting with one. they are broken. and i work with horses everyday, hard working horses. they live a very tough life. i am not a softee by any means, but these animals are ruined & you can see it in their eyes. i am from NYC & have been in a carriage myself. i have also been in one when a horse gets spooked and nearly crashes through an intersection. the city is no place for these kind gentle animals…wake up guys..

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      Allyson – you might try researching your own facts rather than just regurgitate the talking points of the RARAs.
      Paris and London BOTH have carriage rides — there is a hackline under the Eiffel Tower. Google it.
      That you would repeat the easiest of lies to dispel means the rest of your post isn’t even worth answering.

    2. libby says:

      Boston’s got 3 carriage companies going now, that i know of. and there’s at least one down in Plymouth, Ma. Virginia Beach, VA has a HUGE carriage company that goes all over the Hampton Roads area. Savannah, Georgia also has carriage companies out for tours. ever go to or hear of Sturbridge Village in Massachusetts or Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia? They’ve got carriages too.

      the horses i worked with were not ‘broken’. they LOVED their jobs. one of our mares had to stay home in semi retirement (only worked 2 days a week) and the days she stayed home, she weaved in her stall, and hated life because she wasn’t working. these horses LOVE their jobs and they HATE when they cant do them.
      walk a mile in the carriage company’s shoes (human or equine) before passing judgment. just because you PAID to sit in the back of a vis-a-vis doesn’t mean you ‘know’ how the carriage company works. i love how people try that excuse.

  17. Susan says:

    Really ASPCA? A couple of horses collapse so therefore we conclude no more horse drawn carriages? Wow! So then, when cars collide and people are hurt or killed, do we conclude no more cars?

    As a horse owner, I got news for you. Horses die. They die in the pastures as well as when at work.

    As others point out, horses without purpose usually get abandoned. If you really care about their welfare, mandate proper care of the work horses. Sheeez!

  18. Darius says:

    When will all those activists start pulling those carriages, instead.

  19. Danielle says:

    Many of the comments I read against carriages are clearly posted by people with no real idea of what the real equine world is or how it works. Few, if any, of them have ever even touched one or knows what really is involved with the care of a noble horse.

    Anthropomorphism must be curbed in lawmaking. The horse is not a slave. He is our willing partner. And if him breathing fumes is bad, then maybe cars should be outlawed in the city since all these people walking and riding bikes etc have to breathe it all day! Or how about we get on those electric cars and ditch the fossel fuels all together? Or maybe use MORE horses eh?

    Taking away these horse’s jobs would be a travisty and further the glut of unwanted horses traveling through the auction circuit on their way to Mexico or Canada. If you doubt that fact, I invite you to attend the next bottom rung auction near you and see how many horses go to the “killer pen”

    We need to take back control of our horse’s fates during this time of economic upheaval and uncertainty and have regulated slaughter here in the US to help allieviate the glut of horses with nowhere to go. Suck it up and deal with our own problems like adults even tho it is hard to do. Life sometimes is hard. The good steward does the best he can for his animals that alleviates suffering. Taking away a once useful horse’s purpose and then shipping him out of the country to slaughter him is a cop out.

    We need to allow our horses to have and keep their jobs and a purpose with people and keep our freedoms intact to work with these wonderful animals. We need to honor tradition and not forget our history and how this country was made. On the backs and beside these wonderful creatures who are HAPPY to do their jobs and willing partners with their human companions in many, many cases. Much like a service dog, or any other working animal, they willingly serve by our sides with a quiet pride and spirit. They have PURPOSE. This is everything I love about the noble horse.

    Keep it. Honor the working horse. Make room for them in this world.

    1. Danielle says:

      I also wanted to add that this idealistic ” retirement farms” idea is ridiculous and shows complete ignorance to the reality of the situation…who is going to take them? Where are these farms? Are you all offering? I know of some needy horses that run through the local sales here that would love to retire somewhere all expenses paid.

      The fact is most people are full up. There arent very many new horse owners out there. The everage horse owner has horses for 5, only FIVE, years and then sells and moves on. It takes alot of commitment to keep one all of its 30 plus year life. The hard fact is that this wont happen for many horses. There just arent enough proper homes with land, know how, disposable income, and want to out there.

      Horses are the original GREEN transportation…Keep em.

    2. Marion Ambler says:

      Anthropomorphism is a a word that should be banned.

      Anthropomorphism is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics ASSUMED TO BELONG ONLY TO HUMANS) to animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as spirits or deities.

      The word is anthropomorphic is:
      1) from the 17th century when people knew so much less about animals and SOME of them ignorantly ASSUMED certain characteristics were only human characteristics.

      2) it lumps animals in with non-living things, phenomena. duh!

      Anthropomorphic is a silly word that someone came up with in the 17th century who decided animals had no human characteristics or that some characteristics were confined to humans The word should be TAKEN OUT OF ANY RELIABLE DICTIONARY.

      You can’t have all the knowledge and the opportunity we have today to see how animals behave with each other and other species and not believe they do have many human characteristics or that certain characteristics are confined to humans.

      Charles Darwin “There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties.… The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery.”

  20. Jay says:

    So what else are these horses supposed to do? They’re work horses. They’re not race horses, they can’t just be put out to pasture for someone to feed and take care of they are expensive to keep, so they must work to be able to be kept. Otherwise they are no good for anyrhing. Horses have been working and pulling carriages since the beginning of time, that is what they are for. The average person cannot keep one for a pet at home, they’re too expensive to keep. They might as well not even exist if they ae not going to serve a purpose as they do now.

    1. Anne says:

      It is true that horses have been pulling carriages for centuries, but not in New York traffic!

  21. german tourist says:

    We are planning a trip to the USA. I spent some time in your great country before, but I will not visit any places with horse carriages. I hate to see animals being abused!

    1. Jane says:

      These horses are taken very well care of, they are put up daily in good, clean stables, fed well and have medical exams. Sh!t happens, supposed healthy people drop dead every day, so a horse will do the same at one time or another. These are work horses, they have jobs, if they don’t they might as well not exist.

    2. andrea says:

      thank you , “german tourist”
      The slugs and opportunists in this town will never stop this horrendous profession until the cash dries up.
      any tourist who gives them a penny is perpetuating the tragic lives of these equine victims

    3. libby says:

      soooooo, i guess you want to leave Germany for some other country that doesn’t have carriage ride for tourism?

      1. Jewel Kaye says:

        Yes, there are carriage rides in Berlin. What a hypocrite.

  22. Appaloosa1989 says:

    Sad to say that if the carriage horses weren’t working, there is a good chance they would end up at auction. In this economy they would also end up being purchased by the “meat buyers” and go on the journey to either a slaughter plant in Canada or one in Mexico. It seems the choice would come down to: work as a carriage horse or end up on a slaughter bound truck. Sad but true.

    1. Batya Bauman says:

      They end up there anyway. So why must they endure additional abuse? …. and I do mean abuse, no matter what the trade (which seems to be well-represented here among comments) say. You can see it in the horses’ eyes, in their demeanor, that they are dispirited, resigned and miserable.

  23. Mark Koltko-Rivera says:

    There is another reason altogether to ban horses around Central Park. Anyone who walks on Central Park South can testify that the horse’s leave a great deal of excrement in the street. Horse excrement is composed of about one-third _live bacteria_. Forget about the tourism bucks; all this excrement is unhealthy for residents to be around, at any season of the year.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Care to cite the source of your information? Please don’t cite Wiki or some other non-academic source. I really don’t believe that horse manure is composed of about 1/3 live bacteria. Better go check your “facts” or rtaher factoids again.

    2. Danielle says:

      Guess I should move off my farm ASAP! *rolley eyes* Horses are GREEN. I would hazard a guess that there is more crap in the streets alot scarier than a little biodegradable, herbivore horse poop.

      Horse poop has many practical uses. Here are some crazy horse poop facts…
      Dried horse manure is great for growing roses
      A horse produces 33-50 pounds (15-23 kg) of feces per day.
      If a horse is kept in confinded quaters, the owner must muck out up to 8 tons of waste per year.
      Fresh horse feces can stink a bit, but many people actually favor the unique smell of dried horse manure.
      Three-quaters of fresh horse poop is water and the last portion is dead bacteria, undegested fiber, fats, dead cells, and phosphates.
      Horse feces are usually green if green roughages are eaten. Light-colored hay produces yellowish feces.
      Horse manure is a clean, natural product used by landscapers and farmers as topsoil and fertilizer. Special horse-manure composting bins and products are on the market

  24. Faith Alphonse says:

    So, a horse slips and falls and this is the lead story? Must be a very slow news night in NYC. My pony was running around in her pasture on Monday and took a tumble. Shook herself off and she’s fine. Does CBS want a report? At least these carriage horses aren’t part of the 100,000 horses per year going to slaughter in Mexico and Canada. Bet a lot of those horses would trade places if they could. Love the comments about the sanctuaries. Every one I know of is full up and turning horses away every DAY. I agree with the poster who said look it up. It’s not hard to do a little bit of research.

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      Always glad to see folks who KNOW horses commenting. Thank you.

    2. constance says:

      OMG, you people have no idea what you are talking about. A horse is a conscious being and has feelings and should have rights like anyone else. You all must be young souls.

  25. Jim S. says:

    What is it with Channel 2 and their pre-occupation with carriage horses? And do they just keep using the same copy over and over again? Horses trip, horses die, people trip, people die, dogs get hit by cars, cats fall out of windows, life happens. I’m glad the horse is ok.

    1. HenryBergh says:

      Right on, Jim! Thank you.

      We’re glad we’re not the ONLY ones who have noticed Channel 2’s weird predilection for over-blown carriage horse stories… The “Great Horse Manure Epidemic of 2011” has been followed up with the “Klutzy Bucking Carriage Horse Mistaken For Collapsed and Dead” story…. Seriously, what gives?

  26. Dresda says:

    Oh, for God’s sake – can I tell you how many times my horses have run, bucking and farting on a cold day, and took a good slip and fall? You city people need to wake up.

  27. Greta Levine says:

    Do Donny, Elizabeth and the rest have a life? They have no horse experience and it shows. All of these years going after a well-regulated industry and you haven’t even bothered to master some basic equine information? Donny doesn’t even realize the word is carriages, not buggies. Newsflash – horses fall down sometimes.

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      Thank you for your refreshing comment, Greta.

  28. Murat2Trot says:

    Hey, not one, but TWO NYPD mounted police horses slipped, fell and went down during the Occupy Wall Street protests that marched on Times Square. And NO ONE – no media, no NY-CLASS, no Tony Avella – said a thing.

    Where are you outraged folks when it comes to mounted police horses? They have had in the neighborhood of 5 times the number of fatalities at work over the past 30 years as the carriage horses… and there’s only 1/3 as many of them…

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      That’s correct, Murat – and there was video, too. Where was Channel 2?

      1. Murat2Trot says:

        I guess No Carriage, No One Cares.

    2. Camille Hankins says:

      Incorrect Murat2Trot, Win Animal Rights has a current on-going campaign which was launched as a result of that disgusting misuse of the mounted police. So, please check your facts before shooting off your mouth.

  29. Gabriela says:

    I saw an older woman trip on the sidewalk and fall flat on her face yesterday – some people (including me) stopped to help, but others actually laughed. You people worrying about a horse that feel down and got back up probably are some of the ones who would have laughed at this poor lady.

    1. Murat2Trot says:

      Gabriela – so true!

      Only these ghouls who delight at the slightest misfortune of carriage horses would stand there, take photos, and then congratulate each other for being so “brave” as the person who took this video is being praised as by NY-CLASS’s PR machine.

    2. Marion Ambler says:

      That’s just ridiculous. Actually people who care about animals usually care more about other people and it is well known many animal abusers also abuse other people.

      If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men…..Francis of Assisi

      “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” – Mahatma Gandhi …

  30. Olivia Joan says:

    For those posters who think there are countless horse sanctuaries out there, use your search engine and look up “horse rescues.” Virtually all are full to overflowing, shutting down, begging for money – do you live in some kind of alternative reality where the economy doesn’t affect you, or are you a member of the one percent? The NYC carriage horses receive very good care. By your reasoning, dogs and cats shouldn’t be in the city either. And the lead ad on this site is for non-NYC carriage drives and riding lessons. You ought to spend some actual time with horses instead of on your computers.

    1. Horse Rescuer says:

      Hear! Hear!

      I was at the National Horse Show today in KY talking with the folks at the ASPCA in attendance… they were disappointed that one of their senior HLE agents couldn’t make it to the horse show. Why? Because he was off dealing with several horrendous neglect / abuse cases with horses elsewhere in New York state. They weren’t healthy carriage horses bucking with joy from being out and about – they are probably horses for whose families the money has simply run out…

  31. Murat2Trot says:

    “Bucking (because one is feeling one’s oats) and tripping” is NOT the same thing as “collapsing.”

    In this case, the horse, being a very patient and unfrightened sort, laid on the street having fallen down by accident, and waited for his people to unhook him from the carriage.

    Typical of the anti-carriage-horse hysterics to make a mountain out of a molehill.

  32. SherryParnes says:

    I’ve seen so many examples of animal cruelty that I now try to avoid walking up Central Park South. It’s that upsetting. I’ve seen a horse trying to drink, pulled away from the designated fountain by an impatient driver. It was almost 100 degrees that day.

    I’ve also seen so many close calls in traffic. Why are we letting these carriages go as far south as Rockefeller Center?

    Saying that these horses would be sent to a glue factory if they weren’t pulling tourists through Central Park is crazy. The horses who are currently doing time in these barbaric conditions should be sent to some farms upstate to live out their lives in peaceful dignity. I’m sure there are plenty of regional farms who would offer sanctuary.

    And we should put an end to horse drawn carriages. Period. It’s abuse. And it’s wrong.

    1. Wendy says:

      Ms. Parnes,

      Please check out the Camelot Horse Auction on Facebook. There you will find numerous horse rescues desperately trying to keep all kinds of horses off the meat truck to Mexico. These rescues are struggling to stay afloat during these hard economic times when many horse owners must sacrifice their pets in order to feed their children. Feel free to donate lots of money to help them, as it is inordinately expensive feeding just one horse, let alone many. Can you imagine the flood of carriage horses from all over the country overflowing into these “farms upstate to live out their lives in peaceful dignity.” Plus, carriage horses often live extraordinarily long lives, well into the twenties and thirties. So when they retire now, many younger than 15, you’ll have at least 10 to 15 years to contribute money to the farms to keep these big guys in a good weight. You might also check out what happens to horses who are actually starving–See Grace-the Little horse with the Big Spirit on Facebook.

      1. Sherry Parnes says:

        I believe that if we finally banned horse carriages in New York, MANY people (myself included) would contribute to their maintenance. It’s a situation that has inspired so much passion among New Yorkers, that these horses would probably fare better than the horses at the auctions you mentioned.

        What would be an extraordinary expense for just a few individuals could be afforded by a dedicated non-profit organization and its supporters. Believe me. It’s a finite cause, when you consider that once this gets banned, we would only have to support the horses that are now alive, until they peacefully pass.

        1. Cassandra J says:

          So if you are willing to donate money, why wait until its banned? If there are thousands of horses currently rescued and in need of food and care in sanctuary, arent they just as important?

        2. Cassandra J says:

          And the horses going to slaughter.. And the farm animals going to slaughter are not as important as the carriage horses? You are selecting one animal from one trade, using horses for transportation. We also have the animals we use for food, clothing, experiments and entertainment. What about them? And you have probably eaten horse labeled as beef many times in your life.
          And its a lovely thought that people would support the horses, and believe me I am not as jaded as this sounds, but people would support initially, but would forget about it as quickly as it was over in the media. Just like everything else!

          1. Sherry Parnes says:

            That is like asking someone who is against child abuse why they don’t support every organization that fights child abuse. It’s impossible to do everything, so people should just do what they can.

            Unfortunately, there are many more animals in need than I can help. I do support several animal rights organizations.

            But as a New Yorker, I feel it’s important to single out this one specific cause, and support it with my voice, my vote, and my money. I wish I could do more, but for now, this is what I can do.

            1. Eva Hughes says:

              Sherry -this Monday morning in New Holland PA, there will be dozens of horses walking up the ramp of a truck bound for a Canadian slaughterhouse.

              This happens EVERY Monday morning.

              There are tireless horse advocates that need every penny they can get to try and pull these horses and rehome them.

              I think you found your “cause”.

              1. Sherry Parnes says:

                As I said, you can’t stop every heinous case of animal abuse out there.

                I have a cause right in my backyard, and that is ending horse carriages in New York City. That’s my cause. End of discussion, as far as I’m concerned.

                Please stop bullying every person on here who has a different opinion than you.

                1. Lorraine says:

                  This isn’t bullying. Think about the harassment the NYC carriage drivers go through, and you’d get a clue. You end the discussion because you aren’t helping horses who need help RIGHT NOW , as they will be butchered in Canada or Mexico by the end of the week. 220 NYC carriage horses at a minimum of $5,000 for basic care, not extradordinary vet or farrier care, is over a million dollar annually. Since the price of hay is rising and they eat at least a bale a day, it could be a lot more. Get real, Sherry. The Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, believed to be the biggest and best-funded rescue in the country, is begging for donations and foster homes and is on the verge of collapse. LOOK IT UP. You people always want to end the discussion when presented with actual facts. I guess that’s why pro-carriage people who present real information get deleted from anti-carriage websites. Well, these are not posts you can delete. Learn something.

    2. Eva Hughes says:

      100 degrees? Are you sure this was in NYC? Because our horses MUST return to the stables by law if the temp goes over 89 degrees.

      Plus, on hot days, drivers must MONITOR their horse’s water intake – I won’t give you an equine husbandry lesson here, but there are very good reasons why a driver would pull his horse away from the water after a certain period of time, and none of them have to do with being “impatient”. Not to mention some horses will just stay there and play in the water all day if you let them.

      As for your “regional farms” and “sanctuaries” — they are overflowing with homeless horses, and many are going under for lack of funds. A well-cared for horse with a viable job is in the BEST position of all.

      1. Sherry Parnes says:

        Okay, let’s say for the sake of argument that it was “only” 89 degrees on the day in question. With the heat factor, humidity and congestion, it could still EASILY feel OVER 100 degrees. Would you want to pull a carriage and several people around in those conditions?

        As far as one of these horses “playing” in the water, I’m sorry. But these horses don’t seem playful to me. Any joy was pounded out of them a long time ago.

        And finally, you’re right. I’m no expert in equine husbandry. That
        s because I’m from New York. And people from New York don’t know about horses. Because this is a city. And New York City is NOT an appropriate place to keep horses!

      2. 212HORSEPOWER says:

        Eva, there are plenty of days when the horses are out over 89 degrees and below 18 degrees or in terrible weather (the horses were out during Hurricane Irene when the drivers knew that the entire city was shut down) especially at night when the drivers know the ASPCA is not always there to enforce the law, On the really hot or cold days/nights, they still leave the stables knowing the temperatures, get some rides and cash in from the tourists and wait until the ASPCA forces the drivers to get the horses off the streets. Plus, humidity is never taken into consideration, ever. Anyone can visibly witness these violations. You cannot possibly honestly say that your drivers and owners do not break the laws. This should refresh your memory:

    3. Danielle says:

      I also want to know exactly where all these wonderful upstate farms for retiring all the excess out of a job equines are. Your idea is completely out of touch with what is the reality of the horse world currently. Who is going to fund all these retired animals? Do you have any idea what the costs are to properly care for one horse are in just one year? Let alone many years till they die. A horse with no “job” is in jeopardy for his life right now and shipping to Canada and Mexico. this is a FACT. Between skyrocketing hay costs, drought and a broken economy, all animals that do not have a “job” are at risk. If they don’t go to slaughter, they starve out in someones back 40. Do some real research.

      Carriage horses are the original GREEN transportation. Lets have MORE of them!

      1. 212HORSEPOWER says:

        Well Danielle, since the carriage horse industry seems to throw around the term “farm” for their “retired” horses quite a bit as you can see from comments — I guess their “farms” are better than an Equine Rescues farm in your book? You say “GREEN transportation” “Lets have MORE of them!”. Are you kidding? In a city of New York’s magnitude and environmental stress load? Putting more horses on the City streets amidst cabs, buses, trucks, bikes, motorcycles, fire trucks, EMS and ambulances, police vehicles, buses, etc. is asking for even more accidents and deaths and danger than already exists. No one that truly “loves” and understands horses would ever suggest such a thing.

  33. Good Horse says:

    It sounds like the horse just slipped. Why does CBS only get comments from extreme animal rights activisits, and not vets or people in the carriage trade? It’s pretty obvious that these most of these commenters a)know nothing about horses and b) have an agenda. The fact that a horse taking a misstep makes news is testament to the fact that these are the most closely-scrutinized horses on the planet. As a horse person, I’ve seen these horses on Central Park South and they appear to be in very good condition.

    1. Wendy says:

      Thank you, Good Horse. FYI, I am in the industry, and so is Eva Hughes. One of the reasons you don’t see much of us in these forums is because our comments are deleted–we don’t “fall into place” with the general sentiment. Please feel free to come track us down on Facebook under Carriage Horse Facts. We accept all sides, and love a chance to show off our horses!

  34. Michael says:

    For the safety of the public, and to prevent cruelty to these beautiful animals, eliminate horse drawn carriages in NYC!

    1. HenryBergh says:

      Where is the cruelty in a horse accidentally tripping? Can you point to it in the NY cruelty statutes?

      How will putting these horses out of their jobs, where they are fed and cared for – and under constant public scrutiny “prevent cruelty”? Instead of being here in the city where we can see them and enjoy them, who knows where they will end up “out there”….

  35. Lorraine says:

    Sounds like the horse fell down. I’m sure there will be a vet report, but horses do fall down sometimes. Even horses “running free in a field.” As a matter of fact, I had a horse seriously injured when she fell down while running in her field. BTW, there’s a convicted animal abuser who commented here, and she’s not in the carriage industry.

    1. Eva Hughes says:

      Thank you, Lorraine.

    2. Camille Hankins says:

      Lorraine – careful who you call a convicted animal abuser. If you make a mistake that could be considered libel. Maybe you should make sure about your facts before putting yourself in danger of litigation.

  36. Cynthia King says:

    It is an outrage that this inhumane industry continues to operate in NYC! Abuse must not be a tourist attraction! ENOUGH!!!!

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Again, just an overly emotional outburst without any facts to back up the accusations. Any PROOF that carriage horses are treated inhumanely like summonses, court cases or arrests?

      Any PROOF that any carriage horses are abused, presumably to attract tourists and entertain them, as per your post? Again, where are the copies of citations, summones, court cases or arrests?

  37. Wendy says:

    Seriously, if you’re going to comment on these issues, get your facts straight. First, the horses do NOT work 7 days per week, nor do they work “in all sorts of temperature extremes.”–they’re under strict regulations put in place by those who understand the realistic needs of horses, not the anthropomorphized needs imagined by the uninformed. Second, thanks Elizabeth and Donny for pasting the same old tripe into these comment sections. You don’t even know why the horse collapsed tonight, but I can assure you the first people to find out will be the owner–nobody wants to see their work partner get sick.
    Next, as for the necropsy results on Charlie, how many people die unexpectedly? If you checked them and they had a cavity and a non-perforated stomach ulcer, would you say these things killed them? Or would they just be a health issue they lived with because we all begin to fall apart the moment we are born? No animal or human being ever died of a non-perforated stomach ulcer or an uninfected cracked tooth. (Do you know what a continuous erupting tooth is, by the way? Look it up–it might help explain why an uninfected cracked tooth is both common and innocuous in middle aged non-performance horses.)
    The point is, instead of fanning the fires of hysteria in the layperson, let actual horse people and experienced carriage drivers explain the intricacies of the animals we know better than you do, instead of banning us from your forums and deleting our comments. We’d like to educate you–learning isn’t painful, I swear.
    In the mean time, let’s all hope the horse from tonight is fine, and that licensed non-biased veterinarians make a good decision when it comes to what seems to have afflicted this horse. Much the same way a sick person might take off of work early and head to the doctor’s office to get a diagnosis. No need to call OSHA right away, hmmmm?

  38. Dr Mary Anne says:

    If these horses are not pulling these carts,they will be sent to the glue factory. I would hope there might be an intermediate solution. There should be mandatory, periodic and THOROUGH health exams for the horses,. Moreover, perhaps they should be restricted to the park in areas where traffic is banned.

  39. Eva Hughes says:

    About the reports about the horse “collapse” tonight:
    All of the NYC carriage horses had most of this week off due to storm damage in the Park. The combination of all that time with no work and the chill wind had many of the horses extra frisky. As horse people know, when horses are feeling this way they sometimes will let out a good buck — which is exactly what this horse did. Unfortunately, when he bucked, he threw his hind leg over the shaft, and fell. The horse calmly waited for his humans to extricate him from his predicament, and then he got up, and was led back to the stable under his own power. As of this moment, I don’t know whether or not he sustained any injuries. It is reprehensible that Channel 2 did not attempt to contact anyone in the carriage industry to get the REAL story.
    Eva Hughes
    VP NY Horse & Carriage Assoc.

    1. Wendy says:

      Ahhh, the old “cold wind under the tail” routine? Bummer. For the lay people reading this, you know how you take your dog out for a walk sometimes and they inexplicably zing about on the leash like they’ve gone insane? It’s the same principle. Of course, your dog only tangles itself up in the leash (and maybe your legs too) but horses in harness usually get themselves into trouble when they’re fresh, even when they’re loose in their pastures.

      1. Eva Hughes says:

        Exactly, Wendy.

        But carriage horses aren’t allowed to trip, or feel good and buck, and do just about anything without some uninformed and hysterical person screaming, “ABUSE!”

    2. 212HORSEPOWER says:

      Eva, claim to know with certainty that this horse bucked. If you know horses so well and that they can become “extra frisky” then someone should be monitoring your industry carefully and constantly daily and if weather and a little less work can cause something this serious, New York City is NOT the place for these horses. How would a driver physically be able to visibly see this horse throw “his hind leg over the shaft” and fall? They are usually at the front seated in their carriage, on their cell phones, talking, texting, talking to customers, reading the paper or busy making U turns. Of course the horse “calmly waited” he was on conked out on the ground. Did you expect the horse to jump up and scream and call 911? You claim to know with certainty how it happened, yet you don’t know nothing of his injuries? The “REAL” story Eva is that there is no way to make New York City safe for carriage horses or people. FACT.

  40. kenny says:

    Yes , stop this now so that these horses can be sent to the meat factory to provide food for some spoiled upper east side pooch. Imagine, they even have to work in 90 degree weather. I thought this inhumane treatment was reserved only for immigrants from Queens and the Bronx.
    Most working class men and women form the “Lower Classes” of the outer boroughs work in all weather conditions. They work when they are sick, with or without ulcers. Some even die on the job.
    According to Manhattans elitists, this is fine for humans, but horses deserve better. Will these people who demand an end to this “cruel” system take these poor horses into their apartments and treat them as family? Sure….
    Most of these horses were rescued while on their way to the slaughter house. At least they got a few more years to live the blue collar American Dream.

  41. John Moore says:

    This is an outdated, inhumane custom that is only kept alive by a just as outdated, unresponsive system of political cronyism. For the Mayor to state that revenue from this corrupt industry is a major source of capital to the city is ludicrous. That’s like saying we should legalize dog fights and bear baiting for the possible income they would produce.

    1. Lorraine says:

      Bad analogy, because dog fighting and bear baiting is meant to be cruel. These horses are well-kept. You sound like someone who would like to end any and all working relationships between humans and animals.

  42. Camille Hankins says:

    It was inevitable that we would have another carriage horse collapse. They are overworked and kept in an unnatural habitat. They live a nose to tailpipe existence breathing in toxic fumes all day long. They are are not allowed daily turnout nor are they given adequate access to water during their work day. How long must we wait for the inevitable ban of this cruel and inhumane business? Get the horses off of our streets now, before someone else gets seriously injured or another horse drops dead on the street.

    1. Renvers12 says:

      A horse tripping , or getting tangled in his harness is not a “collapse”. A horse that goes down and when it is freed, gets up and walks off is not one that has dropped from exhaustion. I was watching two of my friends pampered pleasure and performance horses, who have lovely pastures, matted stalls and work less than an hour a day, playing in the first snow and one of them slipped after some rough “horseplay” and fell – went down flat as the horse in the story. Not being in harness, he got up, looking as if he felt foolish, and resumed his play.Let’s not twist a relatively benign accident into something to beat the carriage industry with. And I have had 7 horses in my lifetime – all beloved and none kept for profit – no economic motive to this post..

  43. sawnetbean says:

    It’s pretty brutal and needs to stop.

  44. Janet Aurora Ortiz says:

    NO MORE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES!!!!!!!!! It’s like slavery. If its not fare for human beings why do we allow it on animals!!!!!!!!

  45. Elizabeth Forel says:

    Enough is Enough!

    This is the 6th incident that we know of since July where a horse has either died, spooked or otherwise been injured. We suspect that other accidents do not get reported and the public does not know about them. Healthy horses do not just collapse on the street. This beautiful horse was returning to his stable after a long day’s work. I wonder what kind of day that was – was he worked while sick?

    This inhumane and unsafe industry needs to be shut down now.

    Elizabeth Forel
    Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Again, MS Forel your posts are fraught with OPINION and INSINUATIONS- How many more auto accidents are there in NYC every day that result in fatalities and injuries than those sustained in the six horse-drawn carriage “incidents” in six months? (That’s just one
      “incident” a month.) I bet there are more than six auto collisions in just one day in NYC.

      One horse Charlie died of unknown or unpublished causes. Where is a copy of the complete necropsy, if you and your comrades at the ASPCA have nothing to hide?

      Another horse was KILLED by a taxi that hit it and its carriage– the carriage driver was NOT at fault- the taxi driver was, if memory serves me right.

      So that’s two equine deaths- neither due to cruelty or abuse- and no human fatalities in SIX months as far as the carriage “incidents” go.. Again, how many humans and horses have lost their lives in as the result of collisions caused by motorized vehicles? Well, we know that one horse lost its life, and several people wee injured by the taxi. We don’t know how many people have died or have been injured in auto collisions, but I bet it has been a lot more than those injured in carriage collisions in NYC.

      Healthy horses who accidentally get a leg over their traces, can and do get tangled up and tripped up on the street or anywhere else when this happens, but they don’t collapse.

      For that matter, how many horses become accidentally tangled up in their harness and go down during CDE trials, driving classes in shows or hitch classes at draft horse shows? I bet it is more than the number that have fallen in NYC – even counting the two NYPD horses that slipped and fell during the OWS demonstrations. Why are you not concerned about THESE other horses?

      And as for your petty insinuations, you should be ashamed: “I wonder what kind of day that was- was he worked sick?” Shame on you for implying that NYC carriage horses are worked sick. Carriage drivers form strong bonds with their horses- very expensive horses, I might add. Only someone very foolish fails to take care of their valuable and valued working prtnere. I get it that you don”t like the carriage horses in NYC. But no one died and made you Queen of NYC, so I suggest you quit heckling and sniping at honest people who are just trying to do their jobs and make a living. Why don’t you get a hobby?

  46. Melissa Freeland says:

    “major source of tourism revenue”??? Come on Bloomberg, the tourists will find something else romantic to do. Horses do not belong in a city.

  47. Donna Schultz says:

    OMG….this has become unbearable. My heart aches for these poor animals. Enough is enough. Someone stop this then send the horses to a animal rescuer that can give it a life as a HORSE.

    1. HenryBergh says:

      Actually, Donna, it was the horse being a horse that led it to fall in the first place. Like ALL horses on cool, brisk days… especially after several days of not working or having anything to do, this horse bucked and bucked big, having fun AS HORSES DO. And he accidentally got tangled up, tripped and fell, but was uninjured.

      if you’ve EVER spent anytime watching horses running and bucking in a field, you’d know that even then, there are plenty of horses that trip and fall…. and get back up unscathed.

  48. Rina Deych says:

    The necropsy of poor Charlie confirms what we have been saying all along. Clearly, these animals are not well cared-for. They toil 9 hours a day, 7 days a week, in all sort of temperature extremes with very minimal restrictions, in chaotic, unyielding NYC traffic, often at the hands of inexperienced and uncaring drivers. This abominable industry must be banned, period.

    1. Jewel Kaye says:

      More lack of facts. The necropsy has not been released. The scant information that was released stated the horse had ulcers, which is probably true of the overwhelming majority of horses. The American Association of Equine Practitioners estimatest the number of horses with ulcers at between 60 to 90 percent. That’s like an autopsy on a person being done and the doctor announces there were numerous small infections on the face and back. Guess you wouldn’t be saying the person died from zits, right?

      1. Tess says:

        So what did Charley die from-nothing? Why did Charlie drop dead in the street, no reason, he just did? Did he die from too much tender loving care that he received from the carriage horse owners?

  49. Karina says:


  50. Donny Moss says:

    Horse and buggies cannot be operated humanely and safely in the streets of midtown Manhattan. Horses are prey animals who, when spooked, bolt against oncoming traffic. These horses have no pasture where they can graze, run, roll and interact with other horses, as herd animals do. They live a nose-to-tailpipe existence, inhaling the exhaust fumes from the cars in front of them all day long. These horses should be taken out of harm’s way RIGHT NOW; they shouldn’t have to wait for a fleet of electric antique cars to replace them – cars which may or may not be produced sometime in the future.

    1. Carriage Horse Lover says:

      Sorry, but I don’t see any “buggys” on the streets of NYC. I do see carriages- mainly vis-a-vis carriages, the same as those the English called “socialibles” because the facing seats allowed passengers to converse with each other easily.

      And really, when are uyopu going to get a new spiel. Your same old nose-to-tailpipe claims are not only inaccurate- a 16 to 17 hand horse’s nse is several feet above the average car’s or truck’s tailpipe- but it is tired, too.

      Strange how you just keep recycling the same old same old again and again. You need to take a break, take the blinders off, and go watch a few videos produced by StopLiesSeeTruth on YouTube. These videos depict the REAL TRUTH about how NYC carriage horses and their drivers live and work.

      1. Camille Hankins says:

        Carriage Horse Lover – is that the best you can do? to criticize Donny Moss for calling a carriage a buggy? That’s pretty weak.

        Talk about recycling arguments, I really wish that the 2 or 3 carriage horse industry employees would post under their real names. It is very distracting to try to figure out with all the anonymous names whether it is Eva Hughes or Christina Hansen. If you are going to post under a slew of anonymous handles at least try to change your wording and use some creative arguments.

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